The Future of CBS Daytime

[Breaking News 802]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:21 PM, TVNewsStan said:

Lurking for a minute on this post and decided to throw my change in the bucket:

 

I think the moment Kate Snow announced prior to launch that Daily wouldn’t be an “opinion show,” I was on board.
 

It’s very old school CNN Headline News(or OG CBSN with a better budget), something I feel the daypart has desperately needed for about a decade since it opted to slowly phase out of a lineup of serials. I’m one of those “four hours of news” junkies… doesn’t suck for me. It makes the workday go by faster, I catch great health and lifestyle segments, and I’m more curious to research news after hearing their take.

 

I usually autopilot on streaming at work(or WFH) because it’s softer around the desk than music, I like following any real breaking news that comes up(ex. Mitch McConnell’s freezing spells), and they do a good job of keeping it straight with very little fluff. I think entertainment talk shows and even serials are great, but there’s only so much you can do with those in 2023 and in the case of the serial, the networks aren’t making huge profit margins from shows they don’t own. Local stations are seeing a desert of new syndicated options and aren’t willing to pay high licensing fees for anything that can’t sell ads.

 

I agree with whoever said the Daily Team should only be in charge of network special reports during those hours. I’m a CBS News guy, so I usually flip to Norah if Lester Holt pops up on my screen.

 

I have no doubt because of Daily’s success that CW(infrastructure in place thanks to NewsNation and their abundance of local affiliates) and CBS(by shuffling Y&R out of 12/12:30AM if they even keep it past 2024) will want to foray into afternoon news at some point. Let’s hope they’re taking notes from NBC on how to do it right.

I will tell you there are alot of fans out here who don't want to see their Serials go.  It may not have the big numbers it once had. YR is still #1 and is CBS star line-up.

YR contract is up next Sept 2024. When Sony negotiate with CBS for maybe another year or two.  CBS News isn't going to pull in 3.5 million that YR is pulling.  Bold/YR depending on The Bell Children (The Bells own Bold outright) probably by 2026 would move into CBS/Paramount streaming platform.  Here the thing YR/Bold make $$$ overseas.  ABC owns General Hospital outright, and many fans out here aren't into news 24/7.  People like to be entertained, and if they want news they will find it.  I'm a news junkie too, but I also like a balance with entertainment shows. 

 

The networks have to look at their audience and there's an audience who still like escapism.  CBS/NBC/ABC it just can't be news 24/7.  People aren't going to watch The 8th hour of Today or the 5th hour of GMA.  CBS News doesn't have the cache like the other two networks. 

CBS has been able to find other niche than news and has an older audience, but there has to be a balance. 24/7 News runs on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and many other cable news outlets.  There are many executives who want to keep the daytime audience mean and lean and find some shows that going to get eyeballs. 

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

We all know, however, the issue is demographics and the bottom line. You can’t spend on a soap in 2023 like you did in 1983 (adjusting for inflation, of course). The audience isn’t there and the ad revenue isn’t there. There may be “many people,” but that isn’t what it once was and isn’t as profitable as it once was. 
 

There are theoretically infinite choices available for people who want “escapism.” Corny soaps may work for some, but there are streaming options and satellite channels out the proverbial wazoo offering other options.

 

How Y&R continues to milk the same stories from the 1980s confounds me. My mom was a Y&R and eventually B&B viewer. As her mental state failed in her final days, I’d put on her recordings of them  on occasion, not really expecting it to break through the haze of dementia, but maybe something familiar could be comforting on a subconscious level. Dear lord, it was the same people on the same sets telling the same tired stories as when it was on in the college lounges back in the day. It looks stale and cheap to be blunt.

 

There will always be people who resist losing something, and their complaints tend to be disproportionate to the actual viewership. The audience, of course, is the product. And if you don’t deliver the product the client wants…even this non-business major knows that’s a bad business plan. You don’t need the same raw numbers, you need an audience that clients want to buy and pay decent money to do so, while controlling your expenses.

[TVNewsStan 13]

13 hours ago, Breaking News said:

I will tell you there are alot of fans out here who don't want to see their Serials go.  It may not have the big numbers it once had. YR is still #1 and is CBS star line-up.

YR contract is up next Sept 2024. When Sony negotiate with CBS for maybe another year or two.  CBS News isn't going to pull in 3.5 million that YR is pulling.  Bold/YR depending on The Bell Children (The Bells own Bold outright) probably by 2026 would move into CBS/Paramount streaming platform.  Here the thing YR/Bold make $$$ overseas.  ABC owns General Hospital outright, and many fans out here aren't into news 24/7.  People like to be entertained, and if they want news they will find it.  I'm a news junkie too, but I also like a balance with entertainment shows. 

I’ll say this and then I’ll leave it alone: CBS’ flyover comedies and westerns were top rated shows and executives cancelled them to evolve as a broadcaster. YR may be higher rated than NND, but again… it’s a show CBS has no ownership stake in.
 

I’m willing to bet NND makes more money for NBC than YR does for CBS. They get ad dollars from the news demo (not just injury lawsuits, As Seen on TV, and 65+ Insurance Ads, but consumer products). An article from Variety revealed awhile back that GMA3 commanded more ad dollars than Days in 2021. And that international revenue you speak of means nothing to them because they don’t own or distribute it; they pay a licensing fee to Sony to air it. Which is why I think CBS is done with it(and Bold) in 2024. They get to use that money to pay to bring someone from a competitor to afternoons.
 

Both of those serials are expected to vacate TVC in Hollywood because of the renovations Hackman is currently doing to the studio. CBS likely has no backup plan for assisting in relocation… even moving to Radford(also owned by Hackman) would be costly for them for many reasons(feel free to DM

if you want my additional thoughts on it, but I’m not going to bog down an NND thread over soap opera).

I also saw Kate and Zinhle(who were on assignment working on a piece on Race in America) doing their thing in LA. I hope they shot some local ads for the NBC LA station there while they were working. Hope all four of them end up traveling for NND at some point. I think the only thing the show lacks(which it doesn’t really need) is a better connection to time and the audience. In the first year, the 2PM EST hour team(yes… the four hours are split between two separate production teams) opened with the time in various parts of the country. Little touches like that (esp. shoutouts to cities in local markets that carry the hour) would help Daily establish that it’s “live(with some repeat segments)” all the time instead of running a traditional news wheel(like CBSN). But not all affiliates get a live broadcast of Daily(including LA), so it wouldn’t be cost-effective.

 

[MediaZone4K 1509]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:50 PM, Abraham J. Simpson said:

I’m not sure I see news as low effort. People do put in work to do their parts and do it well. No one I know in that space dials it in. Are there exceptions? Heck, of course. There’s not an industry where that isn’t true somewhere. But people put in the effort to present content that gets viewers in a world where viewership is ever-more fragmented. But that’s just me.

It's not the fault of news emplyees, it's the network heads who keep demanding more news. They keep blaming splintered audiences for low ratings. That's only part of the puzzle.

 

Low effort or *low quality* programming is also to blame. Spitting out cheap Byron Allen court shows, repeditive newscasts and recycling tired police procedurals is bound to negatively affect ratings. I know countless people who say TV sucks now so they watch Netflix

 

It is lazy in a sense. Rather than being creative with programming, networks can simply have their news crew that's around (doing a lot as it is) churn out yet another newscast for no added cost.

 

Profit comes first but, there has to be a way to achieve that without showing news 17 hours a day. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by MediaZone4K

[MediaZone4K 1509]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:35 AM, Abraham J. Simpson said:

We all know, however, the issue is demographics and the bottom line. You can’t spend on a soap in 2023 like you did in 1983 (adjusting for inflation, of course). The audience isn’t there and the ad revenue isn’t there. There may be “many people,” but that isn’t what it once was and isn’t as profitable as it once was. 
 

There are theoretically infinite choices available for people who want “escapism.” Corny soaps may work for some, but there are streaming options and satellite channels out the proverbial wazoo offering other options.

 

How Y&R continues to milk the same stories from the 1980s confounds me. My mom was a Y&R and eventually B&B viewer. As her mental state failed in her final days, I’d put on her recordings of them  on occasion, not really expecting it to break through the haze of dementia, but maybe something familiar could be comforting on a subconscious level. Dear lord, it was the same people on the same sets telling the same tired stories as when it was on in the college lounges back in the day. It looks stale and cheap to be blunt.

 

There will always be people who resist losing something, and their complaints tend to be disproportionate to the actual viewership. The audience, of course, is the product. And if you don’t deliver the product the client wants…even this non-business major knows that’s a bad business plan. You don’t need the same raw numbers, you need an audience that clients want to buy and pay decent money to do so, while controlling your expenses.

This is also true. Soap executives cheifly blame splintered audiences and working women for poor ratings, when bad writing is also a factor. The genre may have to cut back from a one hour, five day per week model so they can need less characters for airtime, less sets, and less scripts to write, reducing costs if any supposed to be rebooted.

Edited December 15, 2023 by MediaZone4K

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

Facts aren't blame, really. Some things just are. And there isn't always a unicorn out there, "if only" someone spent more or wrote better or whatever. People were leaving soaps for  long time. Then gas tanks almost empty there; throwing more money at a dying genre is pointless. Its not blame to say key audiences in 2023 aren't the same as in 1983. 

 

It's also overly broad to just label all news division programming with one brush. It struck me on a recent NY visit to the NBC store the distinct merchandise for the third and fourth hours of Today. There is, of course, the main show umbrella, but the other hours are treated as somewhat unique entities. The content isn't identical, and that is typically true at the local level as well. There's a whole thread here somewhere about how the 10 am hour on WABC is noticeably different from the other newscasts, and even among more traditional newscasts, tonality varies. 

 

If there was some magic formula for success and a profitable bottom line, someone would be trying it. Millions upon millions of dollars overall are at stake, people's jobs are at stake. No one is just sitting around ordering up another hour from the news division on a whim or so they can get out the door in time to make it to happy hour.  

 

You have a population segment that gravitates toward the likes of Maury and Springer. Some that like the Kelly and Mark or Kelly Clarkson type shows. Some who can't get enough court shows. And then there are a bajillion streaming options, sports galore, cable channels with movies out the wazoo, dramas, sitcoms, etc. That pie has been sliced six ways from Sunday. It's easy to say "do something different." It's much harder to actually find that "something" that delivers the profits it needs to. 

10 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

This is also true. Soap executives cheifly blame splintered audiences and working women for poor ratings, when bad writing is also a factor. The genre may have to cut back from a one hour, five day

per week model so they can need less characters for airtime, less sets, and less scripts to write, reducing costs if any supposed to be rebooted.

This is really interesting. Cutting back from 5 days is one thing, but that is a guarantee you're off the broadcast network. You're not getting a three-day a week slot (or whatever) there. But to the point of less characters and sets...from what I saw of those days seeing Y&R, there were very few characters. Generally the same old actors from before and a few seemingly disposable new ones--generally offspring or other relatives--and that's it. Two or three people to a storyline being told that day, and maybe 2 or 3 storylines being covered max. Even then, the characters seemed to them mix and match among scenes, so you really weren't getting more actors, they just shuffled among the sets and fellow castmates in some kind of weird, soapy square dance. Also didn't count many sets. At least a half dozen over that span looked pretty much like they did years ago. I'm assuming they got some fresh paint here and there. The others looked like SNL skit sets--in that they could easily be repurposed with minimal effort to become something else generic for limited use. 

 

Of course, casts and crew cost money, so I am not literal when I say this, but I have to wonder where the money is going. It isn't into the product. And I know the soaps were never high production value. They were cheesier than cheesy. Always. But it looks like they're down to fumes, and that makes sense. Tastes change. 

[MediaZone4K 1509]

 

16 hours ago, Abraham J. Simpson said:

Facts aren't blame, really. Some things just are. And there isn't always a unicorn out there, "if only" someone spent more or wrote better or whatever. People were leaving soaps for  long time. Then gas tanks almost empty there; throwing more money at a dying genre is pointless. Its not blame to say key audiences in 2023 aren't the same as in 1983. 

 

It's also overly broad to just label all news division programming with one brush. It struck me on a recent NY visit to the NBC store the distinct merchandise for the third and fourth hours of Today. There is, of course, the main show umbrella, but the other hours are treated as somewhat unique entities. The content isn't identical, and that is typically true at the local level as well. There's a whole thread here somewhere about how the 10 am hour on WABC is noticeably different from the other newscasts, and even among more traditional newscasts, tonality varies. 

 

If there was some magic formula for success and a profitable bottom line, someone would be trying it. Millions upon millions of dollars overall are at stake, people's jobs are at stake. No one is just sitting around ordering up another hour from the news division on a whim or so they can get out the door in time to make it to happy hour.  

 

You have a population segment that gravitates toward the likes of Maury and Springer. Some that like the Kelly and Mark or Kelly Clarkson type shows. Some who can't get enough court shows. And then there are a bajillion streaming options, sports galore, cable channels with movies out the wazoo, dramas, sitcoms, etc. That pie has been sliced six ways from Sunday. It's easy to say "do something different." It's much harder to actually find that "something" that delivers the profits it needs to. 

This is really interesting. Cutting back from 5 days is one thing, but that is a guarantee you're off the broadcast network. You're not getting a three-day a week slot (or whatever) there. But to the point of less characters and sets...from what I saw of those days seeing Y&R, there were very few characters. Generally the same old actors from before and a few seemingly disposable new ones--generally offspring or other relatives--and that's it. Two or three people to a storyline being told that day, and maybe 2 or 3 storylines being covered max. Even then, the characters seemed to them mix and match among scenes, so you really weren't getting more actors, they just shuffled among the sets and fellow castmates in some kind of weird, soapy square dance. Also didn't count many sets. At least a half dozen over that span looked pretty much like they did years ago. I'm assuming they got some fresh paint here and there. The others looked like SNL skit sets--in that they could easily be repurposed with minimal effort to become something else generic for limited use. 

 

Of course, casts and crew cost money, so I am not literal when I say this, but I have to wonder where the money is going. It isn't into the product. And I know the soaps were never high production value. They were cheesier than cheesy. Always. But it looks like they're down to fumes, and that makes sense. Tastes change. 

Hope I haven't veered too far from NN Daily.

 

*Network executives keep soely pointing to (rather saying blame) shifts in viewing habits without recognizing bad writing plays a role. 

 

If you look at the trend of when viewers 

started leaving soaps--the mid 90s--that's when alot of bad writing trends began, in addition to the OJ trial, shifting viewing habits, etc.

 

"If there was some magic formula for success and a profitable bottom line, someone would be trying it. Millions upon millions of dollars overall are at stake, people's jobs are at stake. No one is just sitting around ordering up another hour from the news division on a whim or so they can get out the door in time to make it to happy hour." --- I would like to belive that, but it's clear, whatever sells milk it.

We see it in the movies with heavily recycled franchises and now we see it on tv with news. 

 

Not to stray too off topic but As for soaps, they don't have to be five days weekly. They've locked themselves into that model. As we can see having one hour scripted content five days a week with no summer break is an expensive model that is collapsing. If they did Y&R Mon to Wed and one hour  B&B Thu/Fri *might* work.

 

You are absolutely right, tastes do change, but the appetite for serialized drama is still there as we see with streaming. Y&R just got a ratings bump from bringing back old characters, showing that there is still an interest (the demo is a different story).

 

All in all, the worse programing gets, the remaining viewers will also turn away and networks heads will still point to streaming as the only reason they can't pull an audience. Just like cable execs keep citing cord cutting as the only reason for it's collapse, without acknowledging the loss of niche programming and poor content. 

 

NBC News Daily is just symptomatic of a larger programming issue. We saw it with the over proliferation of soaps, talk shows, and cable dramas. The bubble burst and the same is likely to happen for news. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by MediaZone4K

[Breaking News 802]

2 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

 

*Network executives keep soely pointing to (rather saying blame) shifts in viweing habits without recognizing bad writing plays a role. 

 

If you look at the trend of when viewers 

started leaving soaps--the mid 90s--that's when alot of bad writing trends began, in addition to the OJ trial, shifting viewing habits, etc.

 

"If there was some magic formula for success and a profitable bottom line, someone would be trying it. Millions upon millions of dollars overall are at stake, people's jobs are at stake. No one is just sitting around ordering up another hour from the news division on a whim or so they can get out the door in time to make it to happy hour." --- I would like to belive that, but it's clear, whatever sells milk it.

We see it in the movies with heavily recycled franchises and now we see it on tv with news. 

 

Not to stray too off topic but As for soaps, they don't have to be five days weekly. They've locked themselves into that model. As we can see having one hour content five days a week is an expensive model that is collapsing. If they did Y&R monday to wed and one hour  B&B Thu/Fri that *might* work. You are absolutely right, tastes do change, but the appetite for serialized drama is still there as we see with streaming. Y&R just got a ratings bump from bringing back old characters showing that there is still an interest (the demo is a different story).

 

All in all, the worse programing gets the viewers that remain will also turn away and networks heads will still point to streaming as the only reason they can't pull an audience. Just like cable execs keep citing cord cutting as the only reason for it's collapse without acknowledging the loss of niche programming and poor content. 

 

NBC News Daily is just symptomatic of a larger programming issue. We saw it with the over proliferation of soaps, talk shows, and cable dramas. The bubble burst and the same is likely to happen for news. 

 

Your're right the appetite is there for serialized drama, and the reality shows have become the new serialized drama. You have a house or different events as the set. You have the drama.  Maybe FOX would have a type of reality show as the new daytime drama.  Plus game shows was once a hot commodity as well too.  The audience is going to hate to see news on daily. Give em something different than news. When your local news comes on at 3pm/4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11pm. The audience is going to feel burned out and will turn you off. 

 

13 hours ago, Abraham J. Simpson said:

Facts aren't blame, really. Some things just are. And there isn't always a unicorn out there, "if only" someone spent more or wrote better or whatever. People were leaving soaps for  long time. Then gas tanks almost empty there; throwing more money at a dying genre is pointless. Its not blame to say key audiences in 2023 aren't the same as in 1983. 

 

It's also overly broad to just label all news division programming with one brush. It struck me on a recent NY visit to the NBC store the distinct merchandise for the third and fourth hours of Today. There is, of course, the main show umbrella, but the other hours are treated as somewhat unique entities. The content isn't identical, and that is typically true at the local level as well. There's a whole thread here somewhere about how the 10 am hour on WABC is noticeably different from the other newscasts, and even among more traditional newscasts, tonality varies. 

 

If there was some magic formula for success and a profitable bottom line, someone would be trying it. Millions upon millions of dollars overall are at stake, people's jobs are at stake. No one is just sitting around ordering up another hour from the news division on a whim or so they can get out the door in time to make it to happy hour.  

 

You have a population segment that gravitates toward the likes of Maury and Springer. Some that like the Kelly and Mark or Kelly Clarkson type shows. Some who can't get enough court shows. And then there are a bajillion streaming options, sports galore, cable channels with movies out the wazoo, dramas, sitcoms, etc. That pie has been sliced six ways from Sunday. It's easy to say "do something different." It's much harder to actually find that "something" that delivers the profits it needs to. 

This is really interesting. Cutting back from 5 days is one thing, but that is a guarantee you're off the broadcast network. You're not getting a three-day a week slot (or whatever) there. But to the point of less characters and sets...from what I saw of those days seeing Y&R, there were very few characters. Generally the same old actors from before and a few seemingly disposable new ones--generally offspring or other relatives--and that's it. Two or three people to a storyline being told that day, and maybe 2 or 3 storylines being covered max. Even then, the characters seemed to them mix and match among scenes, so you really weren't getting more actors, they just shuffled among the sets and fellow castmates in some kind of weird, soapy square dance. Also didn't count many sets. At least a half dozen over that span looked pretty much like they did years ago. I'm assuming they got some fresh paint here and there. The others looked like SNL skit sets--in that they could easily be repurposed with minimal effort to become something else generic for limited use. 

 

Of course, casts and crew cost money, so I am not literal when I say this, but I have to wonder where the money is going. It isn't into the product. And I know the soaps were never high production value. They were cheesier than cheesy. Always. But it looks like they're down to fumes, and that makes sense. Tastes change. 

There some strong points you made here and there. With the last (2) Proctor Gamble shows they were looking at changing the model from 5 days a week. There was some buzz about that . PG wanted out the soap business and they did in 2009/10.  Yes, it cost $50 million dollars a year to produce a serialized drama, because in 2008 YR licensing fees were up and many elder cast had to take paycuts. There were some actors who were cut too, because of CBS slashing the licensing fees. Being #1 comes with alot of baggage too.

 

You say that the sets are cheap maybe in the 70s, but the shows creator was very instrumental in the show being lush. In the 80s they would have real champagne, fresh flowers and they have a huge production values. Many crew members talks about how they use certain lighting and they have been lauded over the shows production values.

All My Children, ABC thought moving the show to Los Angeles the show would come under budget, but it was over budget.   While One Life was the read-headed step-child that was always come under budget. (Depending on who you asked many would say One Life should of been the one to move to LA)   General Hospital is and always been ABC's crown jewel.  Guiding Light was moved out of their NYC CBS studio to New Jersey, to try a new model with outdoor filming.  The executive producer at the time was trying to save the show.  Soap producers live in a bubble, and when budgets have been cut they make do with what they have.

 

Soaps at one time was a cash cow for networks and the money was so big during the 70s up to the 90s. The money the soaps made for the network help fund many primetime pilots/shows. Nobody had a crystal ball to see how television/ technology+the internet would change the way people watched their shows, news, sports etc.  Yes, at the end of the day it does come down to economics.   NBC/Corday Productions/Sony had a deal on their last cycle that Days would transition from NBC broadcast to NBC streaming Peacock. Days has become very popular on Peacock and has been renewed til 2025 which would make it to the shows 60th year.   

 

Seeing YR/Bold probably having a (2 year pick-up and that my opinion) The last cycle was a 4 year pick-up, and probably Sony & (The Bells- the children own Bold outright.) would probably move the show to Paramount Plus. Again, I'm speculating, because YR has a bigger budget than Days and the model that Sony has now with YR. Where the current head-writer is also/ the breakdown writer /and EP. Sony wanted that same model for Days, and the folks at Days pushed back on that.

 

Sometime next year YR /Bold going to have to make some cuts for CBS to pay for those licensing fees.  ABC owns General Hospital outright and with Bob Iger trying to find out

what he wants Disney to do with ABC.  I can see General Hospital moving over to hulu full-time. 

 

(as Jamey Giddens once said on daytimeconfidental.com podcast a decade and half ago  that YR & General Hospital would be the last two standing.) If they both can make it 2025-2026. What a feat that would be..

 

 

 

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

Hiring Oscar-winning writers isn’t going to change the trajectory of soaps. They are a relic of a bygone era with a few left chugging along, closer to the end than the beginning. Throwing money you don’t have at a dying genre isn’t going to change it. So great, squeeze what you can out of it and look toward the future, not the past. Audiences aren’t the same and aren’t going to want the same things. 
 

Splitting the soaps down on the broadcast schedule to alternating days is pointless beyond getting a portion of the schedule open for something else. Daytime is a 5x a week pattern for good reason—it’s the most common way we live our lives. Of course there are exceptions to this, but by and large we go to school and work during the same times (primarily daytime) weekdays. A soap twice a week simply makes no business sense; daytime doesn’t follow the prime time approach (although CBS has been turning prime time this fall into a good approximation of daytime with so many Price is Right and Let’s Make a Deal specials ).

 

Viewers aren’t going to burn out if you offer more news because they’re not watching all of it. That just isn’t a thing that people are tuned to one channel from 4 am to midnight, actively engaged and suddenly experiencing news fatigue because the station added a newscast. They watch bits and pieces that fit their schedules. There seems to be a fascination with counting the number of hours in forums like this, but your average viewer is not doing that. (And if people totally burned out on news available much of the day, someone better warn Ted Turner back in the 1980s .)

 

NND fits better in today’s reality than Days. Sorry old-schoolers, it just does. It’s more economical, it connects to the brand and it’s helping some affiliates.  And while ABC rides GH into its inevitable sunset, GMA3 is a better fit than if they’d kept another dying soap. Heck, it fits better than the Chew. That was a perfectly fine effort that had a nice solid run. But this is strategically better. 
 

CBS is a bit different in that their morning show has never had the success of a Today or GMA. It’s harder to build a base there for an afternoon news hour, though certainly not impossible. Just a heavier lift with results that would need to be viewed in that context IF they ever went that way. Not saying they will. They managed to get new life out of Price is Right, and have a decent enough counterpart in Let’s Make a Deal, so what comes next in a post-soap world will be interesting to see.

[TVNewsStan 13]

12 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

All in all, the worse programing gets, the remaining viewers will also turn away and networks heads will still point to streaming as the only reason they can't pull an audience. Just like cable execs keep citing cord cutting as the only reason for it's collapse, without acknowledging the loss of niche programming and poor content. 

 

NBC News Daily is just symptomatic of a larger programming issue. We saw it with the over proliferation of soaps, talk shows, and cable dramas. The bubble burst and the same is likely to happen for news. 

I see shows like Daily as programming that can assist in extending the lifespan of broadcast TV and local stations by at least another couple decades. If Daily/GMA3/whatever CBS launches to replace Y&R/Bold can make enough ad dollars to keep them from selling off their broadcast networks to a company like Sinclair Broadcast Group or Byron Allen Media(I have no beef with them owning a broadcast network, but many do) then that is a win for viewers.

 

Afternoon news programming can also be viewed as a statement against disinformation. Daytime as a whole lost a lot of viewers due to OJ, cable and streaming, but the big dropoff happened thanks to social media playing a huge role. Many get their soap operas(thanks to cooked up drama from reality TV/celebrities, whatever your neighbors are doing, political arguments with your Facebook Friends), your sports highlights, and their news from social media. Programs like Daily you could say provide people with headlines vs. hyperbole, facts vs. “what I heard,” and makes the audience watching more curious to actually do their research. As more people cut the cord or have their high speed internet data capped, programs like Daily(aiding local news) will be helpful in providing basic headlines.
 

Afternoon News isn’t a fad that’s going away… NBC, by happy accident, went from being the laughing stock of daytime afternoons to becoming thought leaders. There’s no way CBS, Nexstar CW, and even ABC isn’t looking at what they’re doing to see how they can replicate it.

Also wanted to mention that I’m on PTO this week and was curious about what sort of ads aired during Daily so I watched my local station’s feed… not once did I see a national ad for life insurance for 65+, As Seen on TV appliances/cookware, or an injury lawsuit CTA. It was 85-90% prescription drug ads(including Ozempic, a drug they’ve not always covered positively) and the rest consumer goods. Compare that to the ads you’ll see on YR/Bold/GH. Clearly Daily is more successful than some are willing to admit. 

 

[MediaZone4K 1509]

1 hour ago, TVNewsStan said:

 Sinclair Broadcast Group or Byron Allen Media(I have no beef with them owning a broadcast network, but many do) then that is a win for viewers.

 

Sidebar: Given the cheap quality of both their products —as well as Sinclair's media bias — these companies need to be nowhere near owning a broadcast network. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by MediaZone4K

[HSV cheesehead 88]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:22 AM, Breaking News said:

YR contract is up next Sept 2024. When Sony negotiate with CBS for maybe another year or two.  CBS News isn't going to pull in 3.5 million that YR is pulling.  Bold/YR depending on The Bell Children (The Bells own Bold outright) probably by 2026 would move into CBS/Paramount streaming platform.  Here the thing YR/Bold make $$$ overseas.  ABC owns General Hospital outright, and many fans out here aren't into news 24/7.  People like to be entertained, and if they want news they will find it.  I'm a news junkie too, but I also like a balance with entertainment shows. 

 

The networks have to look at their audience and there's an audience who still like escapism.  CBS/NBC/ABC it just can't be news 24/7.  People aren't going to watch The 8th hour of Today or the 5th hour of GMA.  CBS News doesn't have the cache like the other two networks. 

CBS has been able to find other niche than news and has an older audience, but there has to be a balance. 24/7 News runs on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and many other cable news outlets.  There are many executives who want to keep the daytime audience mean and lean and find some shows that going to get eyeballs. 

2 hours ago, TVNewsStan said:

I see shows like Daily as programming that can assist in extending the lifespan of broadcast TV and local stations by at least another couple decades. If Daily/GMA3/whatever CBS launches to replace Y&R/Bold can make enough ad dollars to keep them from selling off their broadcast networks to a company like Sinclair Broadcast Group or Byron Allen Media(I have no beef with them owning a broadcast network, but many do) then that is a win for viewers.

 

Afternoon news programming can also be viewed as a statement against disinformation. Daytime as a whole lost a lot of viewers due to OJ, cable and streaming, but the big dropoff happened thanks to social media playing a huge role. Many get their soap operas(thanks to cooked up drama from reality TV/celebrities, whatever your neighbors are doing, political arguments with your Facebook Friends), your sports highlights, and their news from social media. Programs like Daily you could say provide people with headlines vs. hyperbole, facts vs. “what I heard,” and makes the audience watching more curious to actually do their research. As more people cut the cord or have their high speed internet data capped, programs like Daily(aiding local news) will be helpful in providing basic headlines.
 

Afternoon News isn’t a fad that’s going away… NBC, by happy accident, went from being the laughing stock of daytime afternoons to becoming thought leaders. There’s no way CBS, Nexstar CW, and even ABC isn’t looking at what they’re doing to see how they can replicate it.

Also wanted to mention that I’m on PTO this week and was curious about what sort of ads aired during Daily so I watched my local station’s feed… not once did I see a national ad for life insurance for 65+, As Seen on TV appliances/cookware, or an injury lawsuit CTA. It was 85-90% prescription drug ads(including Ozempic, a drug they’ve not always covered positively) and the rest consumer goods. Compare that to the ads you’ll see on YR/Bold/GH. Clearly Daily is more successful than some are willing to admit. 

 

While I would interested to see what CBS might come up with, I think it would be a shot in the foot for them. All of their weekday newscasts get third/last-place in viewers, odds are this wouldn't be any different. The only way for it to work is if they were to have it run right after the morning game show block, which is where I think they could get the most viewers who just did not change the channel (I am in my tweenties, and whenever i was sick I'd watch the game shows), plus they'd have have to figure out which talent to use to anchor it, but I'll leave that for another post.

 

 

 

Also, at this point should this thread be renamed to something like "Midday Network News"

Edited December 15, 2023 by HSV cheesehead

[TVNewsStan 13]

58 minutes ago, HSV cheesehead said:

That would be the goal for CBS, wouldn’t it? To retain as much of the lead-in as necessary. Stations could have the option of airing the hour right after Price, after their expanded hour newscast, or at 2PM/3PM to compete directly against Daily.

 

2 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

Sidebar: Given the cheap quality of both their products —as well as Sinclair's media bias — these companies need to be nowhere near owning a broadcast network. 

If the networks aren’t making money for these media companies, that’s exactly what will happen. If programs Daily can make money for broadcast to keep them in the black, then it possibly keeps Comcast from selling the network and the news division. Same for Paramount, who is already flirting with AMG ahead of their big sale(Comics Unleashed/Funny You Should Ask)… 

 

I’m a lifelong soap fan… I certainly get why fans don’t want to give up their shows. But we don’t represent the viewership the networks want… we haven’t for over a decade. And spamming the NBC News Daily thread with negative comments, quoting Jamey Giddens (who spent over a decade enabling showrunners’ bad writing and creative decisions under the guise of journalism at Daytime Confidential) and preaching about executives lacking creativity in programming(which is rich given how YR/Bold/Days aren’t even trying and save for the recent Colleen Zenk stunt at YR, are totally on autopilot) isn’t enough of a sell to save the genre in its current state. There are plenty of forums devoted to serials where you can bash network news.

 

It says a lot when the most provocative stories on daytime are being told on NBC News Daily instead of a serial… once lauded as *the place* for relevant social commentary and takeaway for its viewers. If networks are done with serials, give me a hard-ish news show over The View, The Talk, or GMA3 any day of the week.

[MediaZone4K 1509]

12 hours ago, TVNewsStan said:

That would be the goal for CBS, wouldn’t it? To retain as much of the lead-in as necessary. Stations could have the option of airing the hour right after Price, after their expanded hour newscast, or at 2PM/3PM to compete directly against Daily.

 

If the networks aren’t making money for these media companies, that’s exactly what will happen. If programs Daily can make money for broadcast to keep them in the black, then it possibly keeps Comcast from selling the network and the news division. Same for Paramount, who is already flirting with AMG ahead of their big sale(Comics Unleashed/Funny You Should Ask)… 

 

I’m a lifelong soap fan… I certainly get why fans don’t want to give up their shows. But we don’t represent the viewership the networks want… we haven’t for over a decade. And spamming the NBC News Daily thread with negative comments, quoting Jamey Giddens (who spent over a decade enabling showrunners’ bad writing and creative decisions under the guise of journalism at Daytime Confidential) and preaching about executives lacking creativity in programming(which is rich given how YR/Bold/Days aren’t even trying and save for the recent Colleen Zenk stunt at YR, are totally on autopilot) isn’t enough of a sell to save the genre in its current state. There are plenty of forums devoted to serials where you can bash network news.

 

It says a lot when the most provocative stories on daytime are being told on NBC News Daily instead of a serial… once lauded as *the place* for relevant social commentary and takeaway for its viewers. If networks are done with serials, give me a hard-ish news show over The View, The Talk, or GMA3 any day of the week.

EDIT: Agree to disgree.

 

I'd like to think of this as ideaological back and forth rather than spamming.

 

To it's credit, News Daily much like NBC News Now is a straightforward newscast. Something MSNBC and the rest of cable news could use more of. It's just one of too many newscasts. 

 

As a longtime soap watcher my self I can see why networks would have to cancel them. Ratings are low, they're expensive, the demos are old, they've been in a crap quality production and writing state for years. They aren't exmept from a lack of creativity, you are totally right that they're running on auto pilot. Watching B&B you'd almost think the writers were deliberately trying to get the soap axed.

 

Ideally we could salvage them though a number of methods but that is unlikely.

 

The crux of my ranting is...if or WHEN soaps do get cancelled, can you find something, anything, other than another newscast (or infomercials) to replace them.

 

I say this as someone working in news, watching the trajectory of the industry turn journalism into time filler, not just as a disgruntled viewer that's "bashing news". 

 

But alas we are all free to watch whatever we want on streaming---to the detriment of linear TV, and myself a linear tv employee.

Edited December 16, 2023 by MediaZone4K

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:12 PM, MediaZone4K said:

 

 

But alas we are all free to watch whatever we want on streaming---to the detriment of linear TV, and myself a linear tv employee.

The reality is that to a viewer, it's just TV. And that's the way the business needs to operate. Yes, for the time being, they're feeding out some things in linear fashion, but that is one component of a video business. Consumers braving more choices is a good thing. If enough people want a soap, great, Days can happily do its thing over on Peacock, and if you want to watch it at 1 pm daily, that's a perfectly fine option. Being "free" to do things is always preferable. 

[Nelson R. 560]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:12 PM, MediaZone4K said:

That would be the goal for CBS, wouldn’t it? To retain as much of the lead-in as necessary. Stations could have the option of airing the hour right after Price, after their expanded hour newscast, or at 2PM/3PM to compete directly against Daily.

The first two options would be more likely if the soaps were to be canned (or moved to P+)….Noon/11am CT, Y&R’s time slot outside the Eastern Time Zone in most markets…or 1pm/Noon. Outside the Eastern Time Zone stations would have the choice of the CBS newscast or local news at 11am and the other at noon.

 

3pm ET /2pm CT is still LMAD’s time slot in some markets unless they were willing to move it to the morning.
 

Any of those time slots could go head to head with NBC News Daily somewhere. Most eastern stations would likely go head to head with it. 3/2 could work as a leadin to 4pm news in the East but then affiliates would have to program 1pm-2pm ET.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Nelson R.

[MD TV 163]

Posting here because of the talk about what CBS should do. The Young and the Restless has been renewed through 2028:

 

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-young-and-the-restless-renewed-cbs-1235924102/

[Nelson R. 560]

4 minutes ago, MD TV said:

Posting here because of the talk about what CBS should do. The Young and the Restless has been renewed through 2028:

 

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/the-young-and-the-restless-renewed-cbs-1235924102/

Bad news for those calling for Y&R to get cancelled.

Edited February 27 by Nelson R.

[bgiesing 46]

9 hours ago, Nelson R. said:

Bad news for those calling for Y&R to get cancelled.

TBF, just cause it's "renewed though 2028" doesn't mean it will be "on CBS through 2028", they could very easily have a clause just like with Days to move to streaming at a later date.

Or of course, they could can the other one to free up the hour instead. Alongside the announcement, TVLine was told this

Quote

A CBS insider tells TVLine that B&B‘s current renewal pact — which, like Y&R, expires this May — includes an additional option year. The source adds that said option will be exercised, thus cementing B&B‘s existence through the 2024-25 TV season.

So like maybe B&B is only renewed for one more year while the more popular Y&R stays on for 4. 

------

Personally, I'm of the mind that yeah I do think there's too much news hours even if yes, most people don't watch all the hours and aren't getting "fatigued" from it. I personally would want them to be more like say BBC internationally where daytime hours include stuff rarely shown on broadcast television over here and are instead locked to cable/streaming like cooking or home improvement shows BUT I can't deny Daily has been a success (and personally I find it to be my favorite, just the right mix of more upbeat morning news and serious primetime news without going too far in each direction) and like, most people nowadays have options. Even before streaming, most people could switch to any of the 100s of cable channels if they didn't want to watch what the big networks were showing and especially now with streaming, there's literally thousands of other options if you don't want news at noon.

It's 2024, basically everyone has decent internet and already streams content, you aren't forced to watch NBC (and the others) if you don't want news. Hell, go watch YouTube even, you don't even need a 30-60 minute scripted drama during that time frame. 

------

Side-Note: Why have they not put Daily on demand yet like almost all of their other news shows. Kinda hard to watch the one you prefer when it's literally not available. NBC News Now of course streams it but not everyone can watch live that exact second and the only stream that allows going back into the VoD is the YouTube version but they delist that meaning if you don't save the link, it's impossible to watch.
 

Every other NBC News show from the mainstay TODAY to Nightly and including other News Now ones like Top Story, Stay Tuned, etc. you can stream on-demand on either YouTube, NBC.com, Peacock, or via Podcast. I get Daily is a bit unique in that there's 4 separate hours but nobody is saying you have to save all 4 of them, like already Nightly is only the West Coast edition on demand so like just pick one of the 4 hours and make that the on demand version.

[Nelson R. 560]

12 hours ago, bgiesing said:

TBF, just cause it's "renewed though 2028" doesn't mean it will be "on CBS through 2028", they could very easily have a clause just like with Days to move to streaming at a later date

Moved to P+ is not the same as cancelled outright but yeah. 

 

12 hours ago, bgiesing said:

So like maybe B&B is only renewed for one more year while the more popular Y&R stays on for 4. 

I thought the same. Maybe Y&R moves to 1 and CBS turns 12:30-1 over to affiliates or starts a “CBS Daytime News”.

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

One other thought—not saying a move to streaming happens or doesn’t, or that this would happen or not but it is not unheard of for renewals to be nixed even after being announced.

 

If CBS finds it to be the best viable option for the short term, great for them. (Same for ABC with GH.) More power to them. They’ve made Price and Deal work. But at the same time, it’s just a reality that the landscape is changing and it’s not going back. 

[Nelson R. 560]

54 minutes ago, Nelson R. said:

Moved to P+ is not the same as cancelled outright but yeah. 

 

I thought the same. Maybe Y&R moves to 1 and CBS turns 12:30-1 over to affiliates or starts a “CBS Daytime News”.

Maybe CBS does similar to NBC News Daily and schedules it at 12:30, 1:30, 2:30, and 3:30 ET for each continental time zone. That would allow for CT to keep their noon news without the new CBS Daytime News being delayed and Y&R could stay at 11am CT.

[MediaZone4K 1509]

20 hours ago, bgiesing said:

TBF, just cause it's "renewed though 2028" doesn't mean it will be "on CBS through 2028", they could very easily have a clause just like with Days to move to streaming at a later date.

Or of course, they could can the other one to free up the hour instead. Alongside the announcement, TVLine was told this

So like maybe B&B is only renewed for one more year while the more popular Y&R stays on for 4. 

------

Personally, I'm of the mind that yeah I do think there's too much news hours even if yes, most people don't watch all the hours and aren't getting "fatigued" from it. I personally would want them to be more like say BBC internationally where daytime hours include stuff rarely shown on broadcast television over here and are instead locked to cable/streaming like cooking or home improvement shows BUT I can't deny Daily has been a success (and personally I find it to be my favorite, just the right mix of more upbeat morning news and serious primetime news without going too far in each direction) and like, most people nowadays have options. Even before streaming, most people could switch to any of the 100s of cable channels if they didn't want to watch what the big networks were showing and especially now with streaming, there's literally thousands of other options if you don't want news at noon.

It's 2024, basically everyone has decent internet and already streams content, you aren't forced to watch NBC (and the others) if you don't want news. Hell, go watch YouTube even, you don't even need a 30-60 minute scripted drama during that time frame. 

------

Side-Note: Why have they not put Daily on demand yet like almost all of their other news shows. Kinda hard to watch the one you prefer when it's literally not available. NBC News Now of course streams it but not everyone can watch live that exact second and the only stream that allows going back into the VoD is the YouTube version but they delist that meaning if you don't save the link, it's impossible to watch.
 

Every other NBC News show from the mainstay TODAY to Nightly and including other News Now ones like Top Story, Stay Tuned, etc. you can stream on-demand on either YouTube, NBC.com, Peacock, or via Podcast. I get Daily is a bit unique in that there's 4 separate hours but nobody is saying you have to save all 4 of them, like already Nightly is only the West Coast edition on demand so like just pick one of the 4 hours and make that the on demand version.

 

7 hours ago, Nelson R. said:

Maybe CBS does similar to NBC News Daily and schedules it at 12:30, 1:30, 2:30, and 3:30 ET for each continental time zone. That would allow for CT to keep their noon news without the new CBS Daytime News being delayed and Y&R could stay at 11am CT.

Y&R is in terrible shape writing and aesthetic wise but it still pulls an -old- audience and shockingly remains #1 against other soaps. Nostalgia has to be the reason because quality certainly isn't. 

 

Despite one of the better performing daytime shows being renewed for 4 years I'm suprised there's still talk about if CBS will put a newscast in the slot. 

 

Is CBS is rushing to add midday news as its national product (even the o&o local version) isnt a top performer outside of 60 Minutes and Sunday Morning? Younger demo maybe?

Edited February 29 by MediaZone4K

[Drew 147]

I don’t think CBS is gonna add a midday newscast anytime soon. Looks like they are doing more recorded hours on CBS News Streaming. If anything I can see them adding to streaming before broadcast network. Even then do a simulcast like NBC

[Abraham J. Simpson 303]

8 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

 

Y&R is in terrible shape writing and aesthetic wise but it still pulls an -old- audience and shockingly remains #1 against other soaps. Nostalgia has to be the reason because quality certainly isn't. 

Despite one of the better performing daytime shows being renewed for 4 years I'm suprised there's still talk about if CBS will put a newscast in the slot. 

 

Number one among….three broadcast soaps? That isn’t exactly an achievement.