ABC changing their logo; New graphics coming for ABC owned stations

[Briella 232]

Yeah agreed, it’s clear this person is convinced they are correct. I’m not wasting my time.

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:57 AM, Briella said:

Yeah agreed, it’s clear this person is convinced they are correct. I’m not wasting my time.

Just read this from a small market station and it will help you understand the difference: https://abc17news.com/weather/2022/01/26/insider-blog-what-is-arctic-high-pressure/

 

 

Let's get back to the new graphics...

Just compare these risk outlooks from KTRK and WPVI. Which one is a better visual representation that viewers can remember more easily? The 'improved' version isn't listed in ascending order, isn't color coded, and has bar graphs that are all over the delineations.The isolated tornado bar looks like a mid-to-high end low risk, damaging winds could be a lower-end high risk or a high-end medium risk, etc. It's just poorly done and much harder to remember at a glance. KTRK's way is labeled on each bar, color coded, listed from highest to lowest risk, and each bar goes the full length of the delineations (4 vs 3 for new package). This isn't an improvement. It's a downgrade.

 

I should correct something:  Hothaus Creative didn't not make the weather graphics for KTRK; they made current and prior news packages. It was their former Chief Meteorologist Tim Heller who designed the weather graphics. Tim used unique color gradients for radar, enhanced satellite, rainfall, dust-casts, etc. (I don't know who made the red High though). The package made by VividZero uses the same green, yellow, and red color tables for almost everything. It's just too basic. 

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

That was just one small point I was making, and you ignored every other one: The bigger point was that a graphic at GMA couldn't even fit triple digits, their high pressure symbol doesn't have arrows around it, but it has a useless circle around it, and there is no word "HOT" or red color gradient on the graphic, it doesn't say "heat dome" or anything else. Thus, it's a poorly done graphic I'd expect to see from a small market station in the middle of nowhere, not ABC News. It's too basic. You don't need a red H. You need something, anything at all, that conveys that it will be hot. Why don't you call the Eyewitness Newsroom at [redacted] and ask why they have a red high pressure symbol? They aren't going to tell you it was for the fun of it. Some other stations just take the H symbol away and put the words HOT or HEAT DOME in place of the H symbol. That's enough arguing over that.

 

Just to let you know, I've spoken to some current and former meteorologists at two Owned Stations and none had anything good to say about the VividZero weather package. Maybe this is the greatest thing WLS has ever seen, but it certainly isn't an improvement in other markets. It's not even good. At WPVI, they got dozens and dozens of negative comments once the change was made, and still, months after the debut, still get negative feedback about the package, especially the forecasts. That's what I care about more than a red High. Clear, unique, and easy to understand graphics that appeal to everyone--not just people who like weather apps.

Edited July 16, 2023 by 24994J

[24994J 5269]

1 hour ago, 13 Eyewitness News said:

That was just one small point I was making, and you ignored every other one: The bigger point was that a graphic at GMA couldn't even fit triple digits, their high pressure symbol doesn't have arrows around it, but it has a useless circle around it, and there is no word "HOT" or red color gradient on the graphic, it doesn't say "heat dome" or anything else. Thus, it's a poorly done graphic I'd expect to see from a small market station in the middle of nowhere, not ABC News. It's too basic. You don't need a red H. You need something, anything at all, that conveys that it will be hot. Why don't you call the Eyewitness Newsroom at [redacted] and ask why they have a red high pressure symbol? They aren't going to tell you it was for the fun of it. Some other stations just take the H symbol away and put the words HOT or HEAT DOME in place of the H symbol. That's enough arguing over that.

 

Please don't encourage people to call newsrooms, even if you're not serious. Frankly, I suggest you lose that number, as well. Nobody should be calling a newsroom line (what was posted above was a public NEWS tipline), whether publicly-advertised or not, for any trivial shit, like weather graphics.

 

If you don't like it. Don't watch. It's that simple.

 

Frankly, I'm getting tired of this discussion, no matter someone's opinion on this matter. That means that no response to this post is necessary. Failure to restrain from reiterating the same tired points could result in...well, let's hope it doesn't come to that.

Edited July 16, 2023 by 24994J

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

On 7/15/2023 at 9:04 PM, 24994J said:

Please don't encourage people to call newsrooms, even if you're not serious. Frankly, I suggest you lose that number, as well. Nobody should be calling a newsroom line (what was posted above was a public NEWS tipline), whether publicly-advertised or not, for any trivial shit, like weather graphics.

Channel 13 used to welcome people calling their newsroom for comments, complaints, and criticisms. I really do care about Channel 13, but like many Eyewitness News viewers in Houston, feel betrayed by a station that stopped caring about us. I just want to say that that station probably gets more hate mail/negative comments these days than any other Owned station. You probably won't believe the kind of hate they've gotten recently. A few days ago, someone just told them that they should "dig" Channel 13's "grave". A year ago this month, which marked the 15-year anniversary of Marvin Zinder's death, someone else said that KTRK has desecrated the legacy of Zindler and Eyewitness News. He went on to say something like this: When there are more people in need of help than ever, you help fewer people than ever. I believe the viewer noted that Action 13 only helped one person in all of June and July of last year, or something like that. Sadly, it's pretty much the same this year too. You don't know how much it breaks my heart to see a station I grew up with be trashed like that, and even more so for Channel 13 to not listen and understand that the viewer was right. 

 

(They used to have a number used to just go to the newsroom, and there was a different number for the breaking news tipline. They replaced it with just that one phone number.)

 

On 7/15/2023 at 9:04 PM, 24994J said:

If you don't like it. Don't watch. It's that simple.

Well, a lot of people in this market will turn off Channel 13 for good if they downgrade their graphics. They have already gotten dozens of complaints telling them such, and it hasn't even happened yet. I'm am sorry to cause a stir, but the people who made this package--and the people who are pushing it--should want to hear all feedback: good, bad, and ugly. That's the only way you can improve. I know Tracy Butler at WLS was nice enough to give many complaints to Vivid Zero, but the company hasn't listened to any of the constructive criticism. Good for her for caring. Again, I'm sorry. Maybe now you'll better understand where I'm coming from.

[east-tx-tv 105]

As for the topic....

Is there any sense the non-O/O ABC stations are accepting of the changed logo?  As far as I can tell, WFAA, KLTV, and KTRE are still using the previous version.

[Weeters 1806]

I think we've gone over the weather graphics debate enough. People love to claim on here that viewers will switch away from Channel X in droves because they adopted the Tegna music, or because the weather graphics aren't "weathery" enough, and are almost always proven wrong. 

 

It's not even worth my time to rebut the absurd claims being made.

[gsrecaps 8]

ABC13 in Houston has gotten the new weather graphics on the air.

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

1 hour ago, gsrecaps said:

ABC13 in Houston has gotten the new weather graphics on the air.

I saw it on air, and it's worse than I thought it would be. It is easier to read these graphics when they show this package on the greenscreen at WLS than on 13's weather screen. But regardless of where you show it, the fonts are still smaller on most graphics. The 10-forecast is much, much harder to read on this screen than the 7-day on a greenscreen.

 

This is taken from their website, and hopefully, will post as the same size. It's TINY. I thought the 7-day looked bad, this is so much worse because everything is too small and too spread out. WLS' version looks a lot better than this.

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

On 7/22/2023 at 3:46 PM, Weeters said:

People love to claim on here that viewers will switch away from Channel X in droves because they adopted the Tegna music, or because the weather graphics aren't "weathery" enough, and are almost always proven wrong. 

 

It's not even worth my time to rebut the absurd claims being made.

Tenga finishes last place in our market most of the time, so they don't have as much to lose here. But KTRK-TV has already lost viewers for a lot of other reasons than graphics. In the May 2022 sweeps, KPRC Ch 2 became the #1 station in the market for the very first time in over 5 decades. That's the very same station that has been trying to copy Channel 13 for that very same 50-year period. When you loose to an imitator, you've must have stopped being an innovator. 

[sfomspphl 453]

12 hours ago, 13 Eyewitness News said:

Tenga finishes last place in our market most of the time, so they don't have as much to lose here. But KTRK-TV has already lost viewers for a lot of other reasons than graphics. In the May 2022 sweeps, KPRC Ch 2 became the #1 station in the market for the very first time in over 5 decades. That's the very same station that has been trying to copy Channel 13 for that very same 50-year period. When you loose to an imitator, you've must have stopped being an innovator. 

 

Not quite over 50 years. I think you'd like this old article from 1974...KPRC was top dog then, KHOU was a few years earlier with Ron Stone and was unabashedly cheap 

 

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/houston-tv-ratings-war/

 

 

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

3 hours ago, sfomspphl said:

Not quite over 50 years. I think you'd like this old article from 1974...KPRC was top dog then, KHOU was a few years earlier with Ron Stone and was unabashedly cheap 

 

https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/houston-tv-ratings-war/

Great article! Yeah, I was off by a couple years.

 

How ironic, because KHOU still has the reputation for being cheap, especially ever since Tenga bought the station. I was going to say "Some things never change," but I swear that was in old line in one KTRK's promos that said they were number one for decades! Dave Ward, and as the article noted, Marvin Zindler's Action 13 helped that station make that station what it was. For those that don't know, Dave was the reason Channel 13 hired Marvin, and Marvin is the reason why fighting-for-the-little-guy became a thing on TV news. Shortly thereafter, they became number one in this market for around 25-30 straight. They used to care so much about presentation and content, but boy have things have changed now. If I remember correctly, Eyewitness News Tonight (at 10pm) finished third place in the November(?) sweeps a year or two ago. That's where they started before Dave and Marvin--last place. 

 

From the article:

Quote

KHOU’s production gaffes became instant fodder for cocktail jokes. Getting film stories of the day’s news on the air is a complex job, requiring about twenty professionals, each doing his job flawlessly. At times, key members of the engineering and production staff at KHOU had been employed no more than two weeks. High school kids ran highly complex equipment because management would not spend the money for professionals.

LOL! Someone literately said that KTRK needs better reporters because their new ones like what you'd find in a "high school film class." How many people does it take to spell "Eyewitness News" correctly? Well, it depends on who is working. Is it "Eyewitrness News", "Eyewiness News", or "Eyewtiness News" today? Someone put up a "BACK TO SCHOOL" tab on the lower-third for a warehouse fire, and never took the chyron off the screen for the entire live shot. They make so many mistakes now that it makes me sad to watch a broadcast that used to be nearly perfect.  

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by 13 Eyewitness News

[sfomspphl 453]

11 hours ago, 13 Eyewitness News said:

Great article! Yeah, I was off by a couple years.

 

How ironic, because KHOU still has the reputation for being cheap, especially ever since Tenga bought the station. I was going to say "Some things never change," but I swear that was in old line in one KTRK's promos that said they were number one for decades! Dave Ward, and as the article noted, Marvin Zindler's Action 13 helped that station make that station what it was. For those that don't know, Dave was the reason Channel 13 hired Marvin, and Marvin is the reason why fighting-for-the-little-guy became a thing on TV news. Shortly thereafter, they became number one in this market for around 25-30 straight. They used to care so much about presentation and content, but boy have things have changed now. If I remember correctly, Eyewitness News Tonight (at 10pm) finished third place in the November(?) sweeps a year or two ago. That's where they started before Dave and Marvin--last place. 

 

From the article:

LOL! Someone literately said that KTRK needs better reporters because their new ones like what you'd find in a "high school film class." How many people does it take to spell "Eyewitness News" correctly? Well, it depends on who is working. Is it "Eyewitrness News", "Eyewiness News", or "Eyewtiness News" today? Someone put up a "BACK TO SCHOOL" tab on the lower-third for a warehouse fire, and never took the chyron off the screen for the entire live shot. They make so many mistakes now that it makes me sad to watch a broadcast that used to be nearly perfect.  

 

 

Yes somewhat related...when Dennis Swanson took over WLS and turned it around in 83/84 one of his initiatives was daily reports of on-air production mistakes. 

 

When Gannett turned around WTCN/KARE around the same time, they added a position in-house to oversee the aesthetic  / readability of daily on-air news graphics (more specific and tactical than a creative director).

 

Details add up.  Turn on a WPVI 11pm newscast these days and it feels more polished than the network nightly news. 

 

[RaleighTVBOI1 81]

On 7/22/2023 at 12:12 AM, 13 Eyewitness News said:

Channel 13 used to welcome people calling their newsroom for comments, complaints, and criticisms. I really do care about Channel 13, but like many Eyewitness News viewers in Houston, feel betrayed by a station that stopped caring about us.

 

It's about consistency that why ABC O&O                                                                                                             WTVD is number #1. Because if that we use tools like the data tracker, the crime spoter, and talk and focus on issues like crime in Downtown Raleigh and Durham. We also split coverage between the 2 areas unlike the competition. It's about listening, and going in-depth and that what maybe sister-station, KTRK is missing there still ratings leader of course Houston’s Best Station imo but while yes KPRC is giving them and run for their money, they are trying. I think the group-wide package might be a dumpster fire if there is no input.

[cg41386 131]

57 minutes ago, RaleighTVBOI1 said:

 

It's about consistency that why ABC O&O                                                                                                             WTVD is number #1. Because if that we use tools like the data tracker, the crime spoter, and talk and focus on issues like crime in Downtown Raleigh and Durham. We also split coverage between the 2 areas unlike the competition. It's about listening, and going in-depth and that what maybe sister-station, KTRK is missing there still ratings leader of course Houston’s Best Station imo but while yes KPRC is giving them and run for their money, they are trying. I think the group-wide package might be a dumpster fire if there is no input.

 

WRAL is the dominant #1 in the Triangle, WTVD is a strong #2.

 

As for Houston, KPRC, KTRK and I think the Univision station are the major players.

Edited July 25, 2023 by cg41386

[JosiahCubed 238]

Can we get back to talking about the current ABC logo and the new O&O graphics package please? I swear we get carried away by the smallest things in these threads.

 

All I can say about the new O&O package now that we've seen the full package on WLS is... I don't really like the look of the graphics. It's too cluttered for a (somewhat) simple package. Very few packages have successfully shown the 3D look with simple gradients (both the current CBS O&O look and NBC O&O look). The only thing I can give the look credit for is the time, temperature, and current weather conditions ticker in the opens.

Edited July 25, 2023 by JosiahCubed

[nycnewsjunkie 1395]

1 hour ago, JosiahCubed said:

Can we get back to talking about the current ABC logo and the new O&O graphics package please? I swear we get carried away by the smallest things in these threads.

 

All I can say about the new O&O package now that we've seen the full package on WLS is... I don't really like the look of the graphics. It's too cluttered for a (somewhat) simple package. Very few packages have successfully shown the 3D look with simple gradients (both the current CBS O&O look and NBC O&O look). The only thing I can give the look credit for is the time, temperature, and current weather conditions ticker in the opens.

I happen to disagree; I still think that overall, the new graphics look great. These things are subjective, so while I somewhat disagree with you, I’ll try to see where you’re coming from. There are even people out there who like the latest WRIC graphics, and if that isn’t proof that appearance is subjective, I don’t know what is.

 

I understand the criticism of it being cluttered if we’re strictly talking about the use of 3D in the intros and transitions. These elements would’ve looked better 5 years ago, and they still look ok today imo, but I can see how those transitions may not age well as years go by. Still, I’d argue that these elements still look better than anything coming out of most of the major station owning groups out there. You could easily make the same criticism of the new Gray graphics, but the consensus around here seems to be that those look pretty good.

 

When it comes to the ticker and L3s, which is what people see most of the time, I don’t see any issues there. Those look more than fine; they’re clean, easy to read, and they’re simple enough. Who gives a damn if there’s a slight gradient? The ABC L3s are far less cluttered than anything coming from the non-O&Os. That even includes Tegna, which recently updated their L3s to take up a third of the screen for some reason. IMO, the new L3s are a massive improvement over what most of the O&Os have at the moment (looking at WABC, especially).

Edited July 26, 2023 by nycnewsjunkie

[RaleighTVBOI1 81]

1 hour ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

I happen to disagree; I still think that overall, the new graphics look great. These things are subjective, so while I somewhat disagree with you, I’ll try to see where you’re coming from. There are even people out there who like the latest WRIC graphics, and if that isn’t proof that appearance is subjective, I don’t know what is.

 

I understand the criticism of it being cluttered if we’re strictly talking about the use of 3D in the intros and transitions. These elements would’ve looked better 5 years ago, and they still look ok today imo, but I can see how those transitions may not age well as years go by. Still, I’d argue that these elements still look better than anything coming out of most of the major station owning groups out there. You could easily make the same criticism of the new Gray graphics, but the consensus around here seems to be that those look pretty good.

 

When it comes to the ticker and L3s, which is what people see most of the time, I don’t see any issues there. Those look more than fine; they’re clean, easy to read, and they’re simple enough. Who gives a damn if there’s a slight gradient? The ABC L3s are far less cluttered than anything coming from the non-O&Os. That even includes Tegna, which recently updated their L3s to take up a third of the screen for some reason. IMO, the new L3s are a massive improvement over what most of the O&Os have at the moment (looking at WABC, especially).

 

True I loved the new graphics, the time temp and current conditions in the open are good. But that Chicago how will it work in Raleigh-Durham, how will it work in New York, or Philadelphia I mean you're talking about traditions and modernizing them. Like WABC they not gonna axe there talent opens they tired that in late 1999-2004. It was so bad at some point in that time they stopped doing it all together really in 2001 they stopped it. WPVI is not gonna get rid of there iconic open except for the title card. WLS has only been the one that's progressive minded when it comes to modernizing things like tweaking there iconic legacy-stimulus theme music. Bringing back “Eyewitness News” moniker, changing there set. Having had several retirements from it perfect news team, and they've easily gotten viewers accustomed to a new generation of news anchors.

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:45 PM, sfomspphl said:

Details add up.  Turn on a WPVI 11pm newscast these days and it feels more polished than the network nightly news. 

That how I used to feel about KTRK's 6&10pm broadcasts up they started making bad decisions like the elimination of 13 Undercover, whatever or whoever made their former news director Dave Strickland to quit, and of course, pushing Dave Ward out. Strickland was the best ND that station ever had. He lived, breathed, and bleed Eyewitness News when he was there. Reading things like this, really gets me: 

"They don't let you in the building and they said they were busy and would call me back and never heard from them. Marvin [Zindler] would be ashamed of them." --Google Review, a few hours ago

 

 

On 7/25/2023 at 11:36 AM, RaleighTVBOI1 said:

It's about consistency that why ABC O&O                                                                                                             WTVD is number #1. Because if that we use tools like the data tracker, the crime spoter, and talk and focus on issues like crime in Downtown Raleigh and Durham. We also split coverage between the 2 areas unlike the competition. It's about listening, and going in-depth and that what maybe sister-station, KTRK is missing there still ratings leader of course Houston’s Best Station imo but while yes KPRC is giving them and run for their money, they are trying. I think the group-wide package might be a dumpster fire if there is no input.

KTRK used to have "CrimeTracker-13", and just like Action 13, 13 Undercover, and 13's HealthCheck, got rid of that too. The "Safety Tracker" thing is such a rudimentary version of what they had 15 years ago, in part because it only covers one county, and because they rarely ever use it on air.

 

On 7/25/2023 at 5:28 PM, JosiahCubed said:

All I can say about the new O&O package now that we've seen the full package on WLS is... I don't really like the look of the graphics. It's too cluttered for a (somewhat) simple package. Very few packages have successfully shown the 3D look with simple gradients (both the current CBS O&O look and NBC O&O look). The only thing I can give the look credit for is the time, temperature, and current weather conditions ticker in the opens.

I have to concur. The lower thirds have too many movements during live reports. And what's up with using 2D logos, but having 3D graphics? To warp it up, boy if you wanted proof that one size doesn't fit all, just look how tiny many of the fonts on the new weather graphics at KTRK. People have been complaining that they literally can't see some of it because it was designed for a greenscreen, not a full-body video wall. Giant spaces for the weatherman to stand are still there, though they don't need them, so everything is pushed into one corner in some graphics and proves less info than before. I am so disheartened to see that ABC OTV doesn't even care enough to put out a product that people can read on smaller screens or for people who don't have perfect vision, and that has a forecast that so busy, harder to understand, see and remember. None of the sky images looked anything like those pictures would have led you to believe (very dark brownish-looking pictures vs a pretty much clear partly cloudy blue sky with a tiny bit of haze). No question, what they had before was better.

Edited July 29, 2023 by 13 Eyewitness News

[24994J 5269]

20 minutes ago, 13 Eyewitness News said:

That how I used to feel about KTRK's 6&10pm broadcasts up they started making bad decisions [...]

 

With all due respect, you sure use a ton of words to say the same damn things, over and over.

[13 Eyewitness News 14]

On 7/28/2023 at 10:52 PM, 24994J said:

With all due respect, you sure use a ton of words to say the same damn things, over and over.

Just copying KTRK's new writing style of endless repetition.  "Only on ABC13, ABC13's [name here] is live with the story," and "As we come on the air, we got breaking news...more breaking news...this breaking news is just in..."  (Even when some of those stories broke 5+ hours ago, and everyone knows you are on the air. Someone has to hate that kind of writing as much as I do.) But in all honesty, of course I'm repeating the same things over and over, because every time I watch I keep see the same mistakes happen. I know people from that station used to seek out criticism, so that they could learn from their mistakes. So I figure if someone at KTRK still does, he/she will know that how many Eyewitness News viewers feel ad nauseam. I tuned into 4 primetime broadcasts at random times last week and within the first minute of turning Ch 13 on, they made at least one mistake each time. I also sometimes forget that I said something here before, because I've told the station some of it at one point or another, and posted other bits of criticism in other places. Sorry.

 

And I'm not sure I understand this idea of standardized graphics anymore, because what KTRK has now is a hodge-podge of what they had before mixed with the lists, forecasts, the simple icons, font, and three dot, thinner banners from WLS. They still have same unique high and low pressure icons, which you guys hate, unique color tables for enhanced satellite, radar, etc, the 4-TowerCam view with current conditions, the same flow lines, some full length banners like before, the same current conditions on the banner (expect a lot smaller) and in 3D (the same size as before), the same transitions, and as well the same way weather alerts pop out under the top banner on radar and the banner still changes from blue to red like before. Pretty much everything on the left hand side of the video wall is the same and augmented reality still looks the same. On the other hand, they removed one of the station's colors, red, from nearly everything. For some reason, the satellite picture in the background of Mega Doppler 13 and FutureTrack is a lot darker than before, and doesn't have the same level of contrast between the background and everything else. They even got rid of the Mega Doppler logo, which doesn't make sense since the station spent a pretty penny on that radar. So, yeah, even though I don't like it, the package at WLS is much better done in that it was clearly designed for them and everything seems to be an appropriate size, while what's at KTRK looks like a rushed copy-and-paste job with changes that don't make sense which make things a lot less legible. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by 13 Eyewitness News

[Weeters 1806]

17 hours ago, 13 Eyewitness News said:

And I'm not sure I understand this idea of standardized graphics anymore, [...] So, yeah, even though I don't like it, the package at WLS is much better done in that it was clearly designed for them and everything seems to be an appropriate size, while what's at KTRK looks like a rushed copy-and-paste job with changes that don't make sense which make things a lot less legible. 

It's a base graphics package that both stations' meteorologists have customized for their needs. If you don't like the way it looks on KTRK, well, that's the way their meteorologists have decided to use it. It's essentially a LEGO set. They were sent a box of parts, and this is how they've assembled them.

 

There's nothing more that can be said about this. 

[RaleighTVBOI1 81]

1 hour ago, Weeters said:

It's a base graphics package that both stations' meteorologists have customized for their needs. If you don't like the way it looks on KTRK, well, that's the way their meteorologists have decided to use it. It's essentially a LEGO set. They were sent a box of parts, and this is how they've assembled them.

 

There's nothing more that can be said about this. 

It was customized for the needs and they ordered it for Steve Stewart to make them of course he from WTVD is head of graphics.

[EricTheEnthusiast 39]

Can we maybe start an "Anything and Everything Wrong with KTRK" thread, move the relevant posts there, and keep this thread just about the changing graphics at ALL the ABC O&O stations, not just KTRK? When kept on topic, I've found the posts and discussions about what we've seen overall at WLS and in weather on some of the others very interesting.

[MD TV 163]

KFSN is now using the new weather graphics:

 

https://abc30.com/13649871/