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KCBS 2/KCAL 9 - CBS Los Angeles News Thread


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23 minutes ago, mightynine said:

So call letters are meaningless, except in this instance where they are the stronger brand, but then maybe they’ll eventually drop the stronger brand anyway because that makes sense.

 

KCAL is a brand. WJZ, WBZ, WCCO and KDKA are also brands, but the latter three are brands now confused openly with radio stations which also still use those brands for their own purposes. (KCAL doesn’t have that problem because virtually no one confuses them with KCAL-FM in Redlands.)

 

Call letters are not “meaningless” but they are increasingly unreliable in order to make your station stand out in a digital world. Same with “CBS 2” or “Fox 5” or “ABC 7” or “NBC 4”. KCAL AGAIN doesn’t have that problem BUT they have to reconcile their brand legacy with what has become a streamlined branding convention among CBS as a whole.

 

That’s all there is to it. We aren’t talking about rocket surgery.

Edited by Myron Falwell
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2 hours ago, Myron Falwell said:

KCAL is a brand. WJZ, WBZ, WCCO and KDKA are also brands, but the latter three are brands now confused openly with radio stations which also still use those brands for their own purposes. (KCAL doesn’t have that problem because virtually no one confuses them with KCAL-FM in Redlands.)

The problem is, this isn’t a reconciliation of strategies at all. They’re basically disregarding the CBS brand entirely. The new rebrand across the CBS stations is supposed to unite the linear and digital products. That’s why the KPIX rebrand works; what you see online is virtually identical to what you see on TV. In LA, the linear and digital products are actually more distant after the rebrand. The website is linked to CBS News, but outside of KCBS newscasts, there are zero on-screen references to CBS. This is even the case for the CBS News Los Angeles streaming channel, which is where the screenshot is from. Granted, this is probably a non-issue in Baltimore, but not in the second most populous market in the country.

2 hours ago, Myron Falwell said:

Call letters are not “meaningless” but they are increasingly unreliable in order to make your station stand out in a digital world. Same with “CBS 2” or “Fox 5” or “ABC 7” or “NBC 4”. KCAL AGAIN doesn’t have that problem BUT they have to reconcile their brand legacy with what has become a streamlined branding convention among CBS as a whole.

 

That’s all there is to it. We aren’t talking about rocket surgery.

To be fair, one could argue that KCAL does have that problem. For many people who aren’t TV junkies like us, the abbreviation “kcal” refers to a kilocalorie, not a TV station. If they want to reconcile their brand legacy, why not do what KPIX did and co-brand everything? That way, people associate KCAL with CBS, which is the whole reason this rebrand was supposed to happen in the first place. Going all in on “KCAL News” only to later drop the brand like a hot potato isn’t a good way to leverage brand legacy IMHO. In fact, it may even alienate people in the long run.

377C52C0-3883-49F2-98D1-FC8E580A2723.jpeg

Edited by nycnewsjunkie
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22 minutes ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

The problem is, this isn’t a reconciliation of strategies at all. They’re basically disregarding the CBS brand entirely. The new rebrand across the CBS stations is supposed to unite the linear and digital products. That’s why the KPIX rebrand works; what you see online is virtually identical to what you see on TV. In LA, the linear and digital products are actually more distant after the rebrand. The website is linked to CBS News, but outside of KCBS newscasts, there are zero on-screen references to CBS. This is even the case for the CBS News Los Angeles streaming channel, which is where the screenshot is from. Granted, this is probably a non-issue in Baltimore, but not in the second most populous market in the country.

People are assuming this is a permanent situation and it is most clearly not one at all.

 

In less than a year, “KCAL” will be gone, the name “CBS Los Angeles” will be on both stations, and no one will call either station to complain about being confused over “where did KCAL 9 News go?”

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30 minutes ago, Myron Falwell said:

People are assuming this is a permanent situation and it is most clearly not one at all.

 

In less than a year, “KCAL” will be gone, the name “CBS Los Angeles” will be on both stations, and no one will call either station to complain about being confused over “where did KCAL 9 News go?”

I’m not assuming that at all. My point was that going all in on the KCAL brand only to drop it after less than a year is not the smartest way to go about a rebrand. KPIX has already demonstrated that you can leverage a station’s brand legacy while incorporating the station into CBS News. KCBS/KCAL could’ve done this with the KCAL brand, which would also solve the problem of people not knowing that KCAL had anything to do with CBS.
 

They’re deemphasizing CBS in the name of viewer attachment to a brand, but they’ll eventually dump the legacy brand in the name of corporate synergy… thereby losing the brand viewers were attached to. IMHO, that’s not a plan; that’s indecisiveness.

Edited by nycnewsjunkie
Grammar, rewording
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The big problem overall is that "KCBS" has just become a jumbled mess ever since whichever guy at KNX-TV decided 'KCBS should be on our flagship station and we don't care that they've been on that San Fran station for decades'. It was the beginning of the end for channel 2's branding because for whatever reason, KCBS in SFO kept their call letters and come 2002, you had a brand manager's nightmare in LA where KCBS-TV, KCAL-TV, KNX, KFWB, and KCBS-FM all had different brands that never were united very well at all.

 

KFWB eventually got shafted and KNX and KCBS-FM became Audacy properties (along with KCBS-FM), but it still left open that it's only in 2023 that CBSNS is getting around to finally one-branding their local news operation, a thing that should have been done either in 1984 when KNXT-TV became KCBS-TV, or in 2002 when KCAL because CBS-owned.


At this point, stick with KCAL. CBS in LA=entertainment, sports or national news (the only thing that cares about KCBS-FM's calls is the FCC and PPM as it's 'Jack FM' to a normal person). KCBS may have been there longer, but KCAL has established themselves as a news brand.

Edited by mrschimpf
forgot the 'T' in KNXT
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7 minutes ago, mrschimpf said:

The big problem overall is that "KCBS" has just become a jumbled mess ever since whichever guy at KNX-TV decided 'KCBS should be on our flagship station and we don't care that they've been on that San Fran station for decades'. It was the beginning of the end for channel 2's branding because for whatever reason, KCBS in SFO kept their call letters and come 2002, you had a brand manager's nightmare in LA where KCBS-TV, KCAL-TV, KNX, KFWB, and KCBS-FM all had different brands that never were united very well at all.

 

KFWB eventually got shafted and KNX and KCBS-FM became Audacy properties (along with KCBS-FM), but it still left open that it's only in 2023 that CBSNS is getting around to finally one-branding their local news operation, a thing that should have been done either in 1984 when KNX-TV became KCBS-TV, or in 2002 when KCAL because CBS-owned.


At this point, stick with KCAL. CBS in LA=entertainment, sports or national news (the only thing that cares about KCBS-FM's calls is the PPM as it's 'Jack FM' to a normal person). KCBS may have been there longer, but KCAL has established themselves as a news brand.

I’m not sure if people referred to it as “KCBS” in recent years though; I feel like it was just “CBS2” for most people. That’s what it is in NY; WCBS is associated w/ the radio station, not the TV station.

 

I don’t always explain myself well, so I should probably clarify that on its own, I actually like the “KCAL News” brand, given that KCAL is the stronger station; it just doesn’t sound like a good idea when CBS is restructuring their O&Os around CBS News. They could’ve incorporated the KCAL brand alongside CBS News LA (a la KPIX) on both stations; that way viewers build a stronger link b/w KCAL and CBS.

 

In hindsight, having mulled this over for a few minutes, it may not make much of a difference anyway. Regardless of what name they call it, KCAL’s ratings probably won’t change much, and KCBS will have an uphill battle. It would’ve been nice to see linear and streaming integrated right away, but I guess that’ll have to wait. One thing I’ll agree on: at least they’re not pretending they’re two different news organizations anymore.

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32 minutes ago, mrschimpf said:

At this point, stick with KCAL. CBS in LA=entertainment, sports or national news (the only thing that cares about KCBS-FM's calls is the PPM as it's 'Jack FM' to a normal person). KCBS may have been there longer, but KCAL has established themselves as a news brand.

This. This is exactly why CBS Los Angeles did what they did.

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1 hour ago, mrschimpf said:

The big problem overall is that "KCBS" has just become a jumbled mess ever since whichever guy at KNX-TV decided 'KCBS should be on our flagship station and we don't care that they've been on that San Fran station for decades'. It was the beginning of the end for channel 2's branding because for whatever reason, KCBS in SFO kept their call letters and come 2002, you had a brand manager's nightmare in LA where KCBS-TV, KCAL-TV, KNX, KFWB, and KCBS-FM all had different brands that never were united very well at all.

 

KFWB eventually got shafted and KNX and KCBS-FM became Audacy properties (along with KCBS-FM), but it still left open that it's only in 2023 that CBSNS is getting around to finally one-branding their local news operation, a thing that should have been done either in 1984 when KNX-TV became KCBS-TV, or in 2002 when KCAL because CBS-owned.


At this point, stick with KCAL. CBS in LA=entertainment, sports or national news (the only thing that cares about KCBS-FM's calls is the PPM as it's 'Jack FM' to a normal person). KCBS may have been there longer, but KCAL has established themselves as a news brand.

This is also an atonement for the infamous “NewsCentral” setup 15 years ago in which **both** KCAL and KCBS were de-emphasized right out of the gate. It was a marketing nightmare and confused viewers.

 

Take the KCAL name, use it for both stations as a long-term transitional brand, then creep in “CBS Los Angeles” and retire the KCAL name in a year. Boom. Done.

Edited by Myron Falwell
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2 hours ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

They’re deemphasizing CBS in the name of viewer attachment to a brand, but they’ll eventually dump the legacy brand in the name of corporate synergy… thereby losing the brand viewers were attached to. IMHO, that’s not a plan; that’s indecisiveness.

It’s brand evolution. Businesses in practically every other industry do it.

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For this debate about how long a brand should last, WJW used the “ei8ht IS NEWS” name for 10 months, then hastily renamed themselves “Fox 8” after the network bought New World. (The newscasts went from “ei8ht IS NEWS” to “Fox 8 Is News” to “Fox 8 News” in less than a month.”)

 

No one ever accused WJW of indecision. ei8ht IS NEWS lasted through three sweeps periods and a ton of promos incessantly intoning the brand.

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6 minutes ago, Myron Falwell said:

For this debate about how long a brand should last, WJW used the “ei8ht IS NEWS” name for 10 months, then hastily renamed themselves “Fox 8” after the network bought New World. (The newscasts went from “ei8ht IS NEWS” to “Fox 8 Is News” to “Fox 8 News” in less than a month.”)

 

No one ever accused WJW of indecision. ei8ht IS NEWS lasted through three sweeps periods and a ton of promos incessantly intoning the brand.

Extenuating circumstances as they were going through an ownership change. It definitely sounds like indecision and a rebrand, not brand evolution. 

Edited by TVNewsLover
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26 minutes ago, TVNewsLover said:

Extenuating circumstances as they were going through an ownership change. It definitely sounds like indecision and a rebrand, not brand evolution. 

Yet again, this is not indecision. It’s a fairly calculated move and entirely a transitional one.

 

It’s brand evolution for KCAL as their brand is being refitted to the CBS branding conventions. It’s transitional because the entire operation is being renamed outright and “KCAL” will be retired in less than a year. And yes, big-picture, it is a rebrand for the obvious reasons. All they have to do is literally swap out “KCAL” with “CBS”.

 

And in the end, the viewers will not be confused. This AGAIN is not complicated.

Edited by Myron Falwell
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3 hours ago, Myron Falwell said:

It’s brand evolution. Businesses in practically every other industry do it.

If they wanted brand evolution, what KPIX is doing is a much better execution of it. Keep the call letters on air to let people know it’s the same newscast, while introducing a new name. In hindsight, it probably wouldn’t make much of a difference on either station ratings-wise, but co-branding would be a better way for people to immediately associate KCAL with CBS on both stations (without alienating KCAL’s current audience).

 

Not to get too off topic, but when Charter purchased Time Warner Cable, there was a period of time when TWC’s brand was phased out and Spectrum’s brand was phased in. Both names were used concurrently in TV ads, and both companies’ logos were on the TWC website. To me, at least, that seems like a better example of brand evolution.

 

That said, if KCBS ends up getting sustained ratings growth because of the association w/ KCAL, that will be a good example of why I don’t work in advertising.😂

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12 minutes ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

If they wanted brand evolution, what KPIX is doing is a much better execution of it. Keep the call letters on air to let people know it’s the same newscast, while introducing a new name. In hindsight, it probably wouldn’t make much of a difference on either station ratings-wise, but co-branding would be a better way for people to immediately associate KCAL with CBS on both stations (without alienating KCAL’s current audience).

With all due respect, how is this “alienating KCAL’s current audience” when it had always been a news-heavy indie? If anything, it’s finally showing people that KCAL’s news and KCBS’s news are one and the same. It’s literally doing the same thing KPIX is doing, just in a different path but the same end result.

Edited by Myron Falwell
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5 minutes ago, Myron Falwell said:

With all due respect, how is this “alienating KCAL’s current audience” when it had always been a news-heavy indie? If anything, it’s finally showing people that KCAL’s news and KCBS’s news are one and the same. It’s literally doing the same thing KPIX is doing, just in a different way.

It isn’t; just pointing out that co-branding wouldn’t alienate them either.

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1 minute ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

It isn’t; just pointing out that co-branding wouldn’t alienate them either.

Calling it “KCAL CBS News Los Angeles” is an invitation for disaster. Scuttling the “KCAL” name right away is as bad an option.

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2 minutes ago, Myron Falwell said:

Calling it “KCAL CBS News Los Angeles” is an invitation for disaster. Scuttling the “KCAL” name right away is as bad an option.

How is it “an invitation for disaster” though? They wouldn’t be scuttling the KCAL name at all. KCBS is the station that needs the most help ratings-wise, and I don’t know how the current rebrand invites KCAL viewers to watch newscasts on CBS if they aren’t even promoting CBS. Hell, it barely invites them to go to the streaming channel.
 

Again though, if KCBS sees a ratings increase and CBS News LA sees more web traffic, I’d be happy to be wrong.

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I'm sure that the transition to "KCAL News", even if temporary, was thoroughly researched and discussed by people with a lot more information regarding the possible outcomes than we do.

 

Things in this industry generally don't just happen without some kind of research or thought being put into it. We knew when the "white box" logos started showing up on the websites, that they were likely there to help transition stations who are well known by their callsigns to the new branding. I don't know why it's surprising that KCBS/KCAL chose to transition using the brand that's better liked/known instead of just ripping off the band-aid on "CBS News Los Angeles".

 

(Also, WITI used the transitional "FOX is SIX/SIX is NEWS" branding for less than 6 months)

 

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2 minutes ago, Weeters said:

I'm sure that the transition to "KCAL News", even if temporary, was thoroughly researched and discussed by people with a lot more information regarding the possible outcomes than we do.

 

Things in this industry generally don't just happen without some kind of research or thought being put into it. We knew when the "white box" logos started showing up on the websites, that they were likely there to help transition stations who are well known by their callsigns to the new branding. I don't know why it's surprising that KCBS/KCAL chose to transition using the brand that's better liked/known instead of just ripping off the band-aid on "CBS News Los Angeles".

I apologize for sounding repetitive, but people who are only watching KCAL might not even know that the brand is now also on KCBS. If they are only making minimal (if any) references to CBS, how do they expect their viewership to grow on KCBS or their streaming channel? That’s where they need to grow. The use of the KCAL brand to stimulate that growth isn’t surprising; the lack of any CBS promotion outside of CBS itself (in a market as big as LA) is.

 

Hopefully their researchers are proven right though (they sure as hell know more than I do). The product itself looks good so far IMO.

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27 minutes ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

I apologize for sounding repetitive, but people who are only watching KCAL might not even know that the brand is now also on KCBS. If they are only making minimal (if any) references to CBS, how do they expect their viewership to grow on KCBS or their streaming channel? That’s where they need to grow. The use of the KCAL brand to stimulate that growth isn’t surprising; the lack of any CBS promotion outside of CBS itself (in a market as big as LA) is.

KCAL has a strong news brand and KCBS has been a market laggard since the early 1990s (and again, they were an embarrassment under Applegate before that). It’s a net positive to have the stronger brand used over both stations. KCBS has nothing to lose by ceding their brand over this.

 

Yet again, this is not complicated.

 

29 minutes ago, nycnewsjunkie said:

Hopefully their researchers are proven right though (they sure as hell know more than I do). The product itself looks good so far IMO.

I’m an armchair quarterback and I’ll never work in the industry. If I operated a television station it would fail in a matter of days, and I know it.

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After sampling a few "KCAL Mornings" broadcasts over the past week or so, I feel that it's certainly the best morning product that KCBS/KCAL over many years.  Whether or not they can ever overtake the solid and dominant "KTLA Morning News" remains to be seen.

One glaring aspect that is missing that KCAL should incorporate in the mornings -- which is important to morning audiences who are preparing to head out for school and work, etc. for the day -- is an on-screen time bug.

All things considered, a good start to the station's new morning program.

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10 hours ago, CraigViewer said:

After sampling a few "KCAL Mornings" broadcasts over the past week or so, I feel that it's certainly the best morning product that KCBS/KCAL over many years.  Whether or not they can ever overtake the solid and dominant "KTLA Morning News" remains to be seen.

KTLA is controlled by a cheap company run by a Luddite who sees no value in streaming platforms. They won't be solid and dominant for too much longer.

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1 hour ago, Myron Falwell said:

KTLA is controlled by a cheap company run by a Luddite who sees no value in streaming platforms. They won't be solid and dominant for too much longer.

Yeah.  In this day and age, it is counterintuitive for Nexstar to be having this anti-technology stance, indeed. 

As it pertains to the quality of news sets at its television stations, they are notoriously cheap there, as well.  But, to be fair, they did give KTLA carte blanche to construct a beautiful new studio, in celebration of the station's 75th anniversary, which debuted fairly recently.

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