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And this post is EXACTLY why WJW FOX 8 is STILL #1 in the ratings and even if Nexstar puts its influence in it, WJW will still be the 100,000-lb gorilla kings of the market because they've done everyt

Any Hearst owned station news product beats nearly everyone including the ABC O&Os news products in quality.

One thing for sure WSB as always running away as number 1, but despite WGCL woes 46 is neck to neck with 11 and beating WXIA at 11pm. Somebody at TEGNA clearly doesn't care about their stations. 

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On 5/26/2020 at 11:49 PM, oknewsguy said:

What is up with Hearst's stations not doing well in the ratings? Especially WLWT and KOCO neither station has done any better under Hearst (Argyle) than they did under prior ownership. Sounds to me like none of the viewers in Cincinnati or OKC is willing to give Hearst a chance.

Pittsburgh suffers the same problem except in the morning where WTAE is still the king (or queen because they have all females in morning drive). 

 

WPXI (Cox Media Group) mainly focuses on Hard News. They just started a "Breaking News Desk". 

 

KDKA-TV (CBS O&O) dominates every timeslot except in the Morning where they are in the basement. 

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10 minutes ago, Kenneth Kissel said:

Pittsburgh suffers the same problem except in the morning where WTAE is still the king (or queen because they have all females in morning drive). 

 

WPXI (Cox Media Group) mainly focuses on Hard News. They just started a "Breaking News Desk". 

 

KDKA-TV (CBS O&O) dominates every timeslot except in the Morning where they are in the basement. 

 

Well, clearly PXI would be my go-to. I want news, not emotional bubblewrap.

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36 minutes ago, ABC 7 Denver said:

 

Well, clearly PXI would be my go-to. I want news, not emotional bubblewrap.

PXI has been my go-to for the last several years now. But their are several things I don't like .

 

1. It seems like several reporters rush through stories and push back information till later newscasts and then just repeats the same line constantly. KDKA-TV and WTAE are much more thorough.

 

2. Their focus on hard news is good on paper and Live segments but it is very lackluster on social media. Much of the talent just repeats links from the main page and the stories are always incomplete. 

 

3. I don't like their local steals and deals segment that they air before commerical breaks from a former QVC Host ( I have called the station several times to remove the segment). 

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On 5/30/2020 at 2:20 PM, Kenneth Kissel said:

 3. I don't like their local steals and deals segment that they air before commerical breaks from a former QVC Host ( I have called the station several times to remove the segment). 

That "former QVC host" is Lisa Robertson; I've been seeing these on WSB's 5:00 news as well and this is pretty much a Cox thing.

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20 minutes ago, johnnya2k6 said:

That "former QVC host" is Lisa Robertson; I've been seeing these on WSB's 5:00 news as well and this is pretty much a Cox thing.

HAHAHA - So I didn't even realize that was her, it is on every morning During EWN Daybreak on WSOC. I agree - I definitely prefer WSOC over the other stations. I am a "give me the news" and keep it moving.  I wish our Media Scene column was still active so we can get ratings info for Charlotte again. 

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On 6/1/2020 at 12:03 PM, CLT-DCA-ORF-PTI said:

HAHAHA - So I didn't even realize that was her, it is on every morning During EWN Daybreak on WSOC. I agree - I definitely prefer WSOC over the other stations. I am a "give me the news" and keep it moving.  I wish our Media Scene column was still active so we can get ratings info for Charlotte again. 

I wish Cox would just move this segment to social media only so it can rot. This is so repetitive and stupid and not worth anyone's time. 

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1 hour ago, GoldenShine9 said:

Update on Cincinnati: WKRC won on total viewers, but WXIX won in the demo. That suggests that WKRC has a much older viewership (i.e. attracts the conservative Baby Boomers and older - they probably want the Sinclair Trump-friendly agenda) while WXIX skews younger.

Any word on WCPO?

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2 hours ago, GoldenShine9 said:

Update on Cincinnati: WKRC won on total viewers, but WXIX won in the demo. That suggests that WKRC has a much older viewership (i.e. attracts the conservative Baby Boomers and older - they probably want the Sinclair Trump-friendly agenda) while WXIX skews younger.

According to the last update. (https://www.wvxu.org/post/wkrc-tv-wins-may-sweeps-news-ratings#stream/0)

WCPO was 3rd and WLWT was 4th.

WKRC having an older viewership doesn't surprise me. Most Sinclair stations have older viewership. what surprises me is Scripps' flagship station (WCPO) and Hearst station (WLWT) are so low in the ratings despite both companies known to have good news operations throughout the country. Is Cincinnati more of a conservative leaning city then I thought?

 

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34 minutes ago, Kenneth Kissel said:

According to the last update. (https://www.wvxu.org/post/wkrc-tv-wins-may-sweeps-news-ratings#stream/0)

WCPO was 3rd and WLWT was 4th.

WKRC having an older viewership doesn't surprise me. Most Sinclair stations have older viewership. what surprises me is Scripps' flagship station (WCPO) and Hearst station (WLWT) are so low in the ratings despite both companies known to have good news operations throughout the country. Is Cincinnati more of a conservative leaning city then I thought?

 

 

That could indeed be the case and those who don't agree with such may have coalesced around WXIX right now.

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45 minutes ago, GoldenShine9 said:

 

That could indeed be the case and those who don't agree with such may have coalesced around WXIX right now.

Indeed, conservatives who can't stand WKYC and Sinclair are going to the only other place most likely to preach their message, Gray Station WXIX. If you don't believe me consider this, In Cleveland, Gray is trying this same strategy with WOIO and is failing against Nexstar there.

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27 minutes ago, johnnya2k6 said:

It's not just Cox anymore; WGCL/WPCH has been getting in on this with "America's Steals and Deals" (telling by the graphics, both inserts happen to be produced by the same company)!

It's Morning Save too...which is showing up in the middle of late night ad breaks on Scripps stations after conquering the last segment of The TalkThe RealDish Nation and DBL; how much does your dignity cost to sell this 'discounted' junk for small commissions?

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On 6/18/2020 at 3:46 PM, Kenneth Kissel said:

Indeed, conservatives who can't stand WKYC and Sinclair are going to the only other place most likely to preach their message, Gray Station WXIX. If you don't believe me consider this, In Cleveland, Gray is trying this same strategy with WOIO and is failing against Nexstar there.

Tricia Macke is still their primary anchor there....I remember a few years back when she caught flack for calling Rachel Maddow an "angry young man".  Of course, Cincy has always been blood red in terms of politics as compared to the other metro areas of Ohio.

 

WXIX has always been a rising star going all the way back to Malrite ownership.  They started a 10pm show that spawned successful expansions into other dayparts, and over time, began to unseat the other competitors as their news output expanded.  More like a WJW approach since they can do news where the networks typically have the time (7-9am and 10pm).

 

Back to the "other 19".  With the exception of the "19 Action News" era under Bill Applegate, they've always been a laggard, and when they lost that edge, nothing would ever bring it back.  Raycom and Gray's cost cutting in Cleveland has only made it that much worse.

 

 

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6 hours ago, tyrannical bastard said:

Back to the "other 19".  With the exception of the "19 Action News" era under Bill Applegate, they've always been a laggard, and when they lost that edge, nothing would ever bring it back.  Raycom and Gray's cost cutting in Cleveland has only made it that much worse.

IIRC, WOIO is actually now a competitive 3rd or 4th thanks to WKYC’s mishaps. Honestly, I don’t think Gray has done that bad of a job at WOIO so far compared to the Raycom days.

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6 hours ago, NEOMatrix said:

IIRC, WOIO is actually now a competitive 3rd or 4th thanks to WKYC’s mishaps. Honestly, I don’t think Gray has done that bad of a job at WOIO so far compared to the Raycom days.

Touche. WKYC is so screwed up these days that I've practically beaten them out of my head.  The mismanagement there far out-sucks WOIO, and WEWS actually looks nice in comparison, even with the new Scripps look.

Just another example of the competition out-sucking each other while the station that just "does what it does" rises to the top.

 

Then in Cincy, where they escaped the Gannett curse years ago (thanks to their ownership of the Enquirer), WLWT does the Hearst thing, and still falls flat.   Is the Jerry Springer curse still the cause?  (or the tendency of anchors like Charlie Luken or Courtis Fuller to run for mayor?)  Luken had an anchor stint between two of his distant terms, and Fuller challenged him, and lost the election.

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2 hours ago, tyrannical bastard said:

Touche. WKYC is so screwed up these days that I've practically beaten them out of my head.  The mismanagement there far out-sucks WOIO, and WEWS actually looks nice in comparison, even with the new Scripps look.

Just another example of the competition out-sucking each other while the station that just "does what it does" rises to the top.

 

Then in Cincy, where they escaped the Gannett curse years ago (thanks to their ownership of the Enquirer), WLWT does the Hearst thing, and still falls flat.   Is the Jerry Springer curse still the cause?  (or the tendency of anchors like Charlie Luken or Courtis Fuller to run for mayor?)  Luken had an anchor stint between two of his distant terms, and Fuller challenged him, and lost the election.

 

I'm not sure what the issue is with WLWT. Perhaps WXIX has taken their viewership base away with more news options? Or do those who want hard journalism go to WCPO instead, knowing it's more locally based being the Scripps flagship? 

 

In Cleveland, you're correct, WKYC has been virtually beaten down by Tegna lately that they are almost unrecognizable. I think those at WOIO were happy when Raycom was gone, since they were so neglected then, but were the first station to get upgraded by Gray once the deal was done.

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1 hour ago, GoldenShine9 said:

 

I'm not sure what the issue is with WLWT. Perhaps WXIX has taken their viewership base away with more news options? Or do those who want hard journalism go to WCPO instead, knowing it's more locally based being the Scripps flagship? 

 

In Cleveland, you're correct, WKYC has been virtually beaten down by Tegna lately that they are almost unrecognizable. I think those at WOIO were happy when Raycom was gone, since they were so neglected then, but were the first station to get upgraded by Gray once the deal was done.


Cincinnati is a bewildering market.  WLWT has a very strong primary anchor team, sharp presentation and a very good approach.  I wonder how close the demographic ratings are, because I’m not sure how WLWT can go from 1st to 3rd/4th in the course of a sweeps period.  Perhaps it’s viewers who’ve “come back” to local news due to the pandemic, and go back to old habits? 
 

Cleveland is a cluster.  It’s a race to the bottom, and at this point WKYC and WOIO are leading the way to the bottom.  WEWS seems to have the consistency it really hasn’t had in years. It was smart to have Danita Harris go back to mornings.  I will be curious to see who replaces her in the evenings permanently.  Tracy Carloss has been there almost 20 years and Homa Bash actually came back to Cleveland (to be with her eventual husband), so I think both of them will be around a lot longer.

 

As for WOIO - they’ve sucked all personality out of the station. It feels like a cheap rip-off of its “Action News” days.  Even with slick graphics, a bunch of cheap talent and no-name personalities aren’t doing the station any favors. (I know Romona Robinson and Mark Nolan was an attempt to get “names” to the station.  But they had their own stable of popular personalities/solid journalists they should’ve kept - Sharon Reed (really!), Lynna Lai, Danielle Serino, David Whitman, etc.)

 

WKYC - Argh. I’ve discussed this at length but I can barely stand it.  Russ Mitchell must have drank the Kool-Aid or has no pull there.  And Jay Crawford is a waste of money.  Sara Shookman was doing fine, no need for Laura Caso...and Betsy Kling is seriously at the point of overexposure.  It’s a mess.

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2 hours ago, GoldenShine9 said:

 

I'm not sure what the issue is with WLWT. Perhaps WXIX has taken their viewership base away with more news options? Or do those who want hard journalism go to WCPO instead, knowing it's more locally based being the Scripps flagship? 

 

In Cleveland, you're correct, WKYC has been virtually beaten down by Tegna lately that they are almost unrecognizable. I think those at WOIO were happy when Raycom was gone, since they were so neglected then, but were the first station to get upgraded by Gray once the deal was done.

Time for a little rant...
 

Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t fathom why anyone wouldn’t want to watch WCPO as their first choice and WLWT as their second. Those two have far superior products and are owned by two of the best companies in the biz.

 

Its sad that the Cincy market falls for the gimmicks, agendas and sensationalism that the other stations do.

 

I’ve noticed this in other markets too... stations that appeal to the lowest common denominator seem to grab more viewers than the stations who focus on doing good journalism. (See south Florida)

 

Unfortunately, in many markets, the overuse of “Breaking” and false urgency works on people (see most Gray stations). 
 

Scripps and Hearst make it a point to take the high road and do things the ethical way. They unfortunately pay the price for it, because many viewers would rather watch the candy store version of newscasts, than watch the newscasts that provide you a substantive news meal.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 

Edited by MarkBRollins88_v2
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45 minutes ago, MarkBRollins88_v2 said:

Time for a little rant...
 

Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t fathom why anyone wouldn’t want to watch WCPO as their first choice and WLWT as their second. Those two have far superior products and are owned by two of the best companies in the biz.

 

Its sad that the Cincy market falls for the gimmicks, agendas and sensationalism that the other stations do.

 

I’ve noticed this in other markets too... stations that appeal to the lowest common denominator seem to grab more viewers than the stations who focus on doing good journalism. (See south Florida)

 

Unfortunately, in many markets, the overuse of “Breaking” and false urgency works on people (see most Gray stations). 
 

Scripps and Hearst make it a point to take the high road and do things the ethical way. They unfortunately pay the price for it, because many viewers would rather watch the candy store version of newscasts, than watch the newscasts that provide you a substantive news meal.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 

Being Scripps' hometown market, WCPO, for better or worse has done some things there that either die in Cincinnati (paywalled content) or spread to the other stations (don't Waste Your Money).  They've done some damning things as a company that had bad impacts on their stations, but other places have done far worse (cough cough Tegna) and it's suddenly not so bad.

 

Jackson, MS has been a market where Hearst has gotten out of the basement.  WLBT has always ruled the roost there, but after changes by Media General and Nexstar (namely watering down the station to also serve Hattiesburg on their semi-satellite WHLT after half-assing a news op there), WAPT moves up a notch to clinch second place with a superior product.

 

And then there's Birmimgham and WVTM.  A succession of owners leading up to Argyle sells the station to NBC because of cross-town rival WBRC being sucked up by FOX, and maintaining a solid 2nd place.  Enter Media General, who is dying to get rid of basement-dweller WIAT, trading up to WVTM when NBC wants to unload some of their O&Os.  Media General proceeds to tank WVTM down to 4th place while WIAT climbs up for the first time ever.  It would sink back down when LIN buys New Vision, and "CBS 42" is retired for a mess of a brand for several years to come.

Flash forward to when Media General merges with LIN, and they get WIAT back, only to gleefully unload WVTM to Hearst.  Just their stewardship and "back to basics" approach is enough to put WVTM back where it was.

I'd be curious to see what the B-ham numbers are.  WBRC is likely #1, and WVTM is probably 2nd, WIAT is 3, and 33/40 could be in the basement.

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4 hours ago, MarkBRollins88_v2 said:

Time for a little rant...
 

Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t fathom why anyone wouldn’t want to watch WCPO as their first choice and WLWT as their second. Those two have far superior products and are owned by two of the best companies in the biz.

 

Its sad that the Cincy market falls for the gimmicks, agendas and sensationalism that the other stations do.

 

I’ve noticed this in other markets too... stations that appeal to the lowest common denominator seem to grab more viewers than the stations who focus on doing good journalism. (See south Florida)

 

Unfortunately, in many markets, the overuse of “Breaking” and false urgency works on people (see most Gray stations). 
 

Scripps and Hearst make it a point to take the high road and do things the ethical way. They unfortunately pay the price for it, because many viewers would rather watch the candy store version of newscasts, than watch the newscasts that provide you a substantive news meal.

 

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 

Or in the case of Oklahoma they'd rather watch a station owned by a company based in Oklahoma than watch a different station that's not owned by an Oklahoma-based company (although its my understanding that all of the ownership changes KFOR went through over the last 2 decades or so has finally caught up to Channel 4 and that KOCO is now #2 behind KWTV. KOKH is in the ratings basement in many of the timeslots)

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1 hour ago, oknewsguy said:

Or in the case of Oklahoma they'd rather watch a station owned by a company based in Oklahoma than watch a different station that's not owned by an Oklahoma-based company (although its my understanding that all of the ownership changes KFOR went through over the last 2 decades or so has finally caught up to Channel 4 and that KOCO is now #2 behind KWTV. KOKH is in the ratings basement in many of the timeslots)

Makes sense since Griffin is an Oklahoma company that only has stations in OKC and Tulsa.  Scripps may have WCPO as the "locally owned" station in Cincy, but it's a much larger company with a larger footprint. 

They're the last of an era since Crosley/Avco had WLWT, and Taft/Great American/Citicasters, and Jacor had WKRC at different times.

 

And KOCO was part of the same swap with WLWT when both went to Argyle.  Was there any period of time when these stations had meaningful control under Argyle before the Hearst merger?

 

Just up the road in Dayton, the swap caused WDTN to be sold because of overlapping signals, a no-no at the time.  Had it been under the current regulations, it could have lasted today.   Still, WDTN is still the runner-up to WHIO and does better than WKEF/WRGT, despite them gaining ABC at the right time due to the mid 2000's tanking of NBC.

 

 

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9 hours ago, ttvn2000 said:


Cincinnati is a bewildering market.  WLWT has a very strong primary anchor team, sharp presentation and a very good approach.  I wonder how close the demographic ratings are, because I’m not sure how WLWT can go from 1st to 3rd/4th in the course of a sweeps period.  Perhaps it’s viewers who’ve “come back” to local news due to the pandemic, and go back to old habits? 
 

Cleveland is a cluster.  It’s a race to the bottom, and at this point WKYC and WOIO are leading the way to the bottom.  WEWS seems to have the consistency it really hasn’t had in years. It was smart to have Danita Harris go back to mornings.  I will be curious to see who replaces her in the evenings permanently.  Tracy Carloss has been there almost 20 years and Homa Bash actually came back to Cleveland (to be with her eventual husband), so I think both of them will be around a lot longer.

 

As for WOIO - they’ve sucked all personality out of the station. It feels like a cheap rip-off of its “Action News” days.  Even with slick graphics, a bunch of cheap talent and no-name personalities aren’t doing the station any favors. (I know Romona Robinson and Mark Nolan was an attempt to get “names” to the station.  But they had their own stable of popular personalities/solid journalists they should’ve kept - Sharon Reed (really!), Lynna Lai, Danielle Serino, David Whitman, etc.)

 

WKYC - Argh. I’ve discussed this at length but I can barely stand it.  Russ Mitchell must have drank the Kool-Aid or has no pull there.  And Jay Crawford is a waste of money.  Sara Shookman was doing fine, no need for Laura Caso...and Betsy Kling is seriously at the point of overexposure.  It’s a mess.

 

And this post is EXACTLY why WJW FOX 8 is STILL #1 in the ratings and even if Nexstar puts its influence in it, WJW will still be the 100,000-lb gorilla kings of the market because they've done everything right. They are Cleveland's Own for a reason.

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