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Question about Market/Network Dominance


Thor

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In 1978, the Big Red 9 took the throne, and largely because of the team, the habits of its viewers, and the RESEARCH (re: Martie Salt coming back, Sugalski lured from WESH), rare is a year when channel 9 ISN'T #1. While WESH and channel 6 (under its many forms) have made gains here and there, 9 remains king. (More to the fact that while the other stations have veteran reporters, it’s the anchors that have lasted longer at 9)

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I want to say WFLA, but I'm not sure that's true anymore. I haven't seen total audience numbers in a long time. Everything is broken down by demographics in the Tampa/St. Pete market. WTVT and WFTS have really moved up, and even WTSP sometimes claims the 11 P.M. slot, if you believe their press release a few years back.

 

WFLA long claimed to have been a solid #1 at 5, 6 & 11 since 1995.

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I want to say WFLA, but I'm not sure that's true anymore. I haven't seen total audience numbers in a long time. Everything is broken down by demographics in the Tampa/St. Pete market. WTVT and WFTS have really moved up, and even WTSP sometimes claims the 11 P.M. slot, if you believe their press release a few years back.

 

WFLA long claimed to have been a solid #1 at 5, 6 & 11 since 1995.

Let’s just be real. It’s always gonna come down to Big 13 and NewsChannel 8. (Longetivity)

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Locally I want to say Baltimore and Washington. With WRAL now affiliated with NBC I’d include them on that list.

 

It was my understanding that WJZ was the Baltimore powerhouse for decades, similar to Group W's KDKA. Did the CBS switch damage that where it's more of an 'open' market now?

 

Also I imagine that NBC's first dark age of the 70s-84 took a big hit on NBC stations. Especially when ABC was poaching strong NBC stations like WSB in Atlanta.

 

Speaking of the old Group-W stations, in Boston, wasn't WBZ once a pretty dominant station? At least before WCVB overtook the market and never really let go. It seemed like all of the Group-W stations were either a powerhouse number one or a strong second. WBZ faded a little during the 80s but they didn't completely collapse like KYW in Philadelphia. Is that more or less correct?

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It was my understanding that WJZ was the Baltimore powerhouse for decades, similar to Group W's KDKA. Did the CBS switch damage that where it's more of an 'open' market now?

 

I think it’s a mix. I’m pretty sure WBAL has always been a strong competitor. But during the 90s WMAR was at the top. But since the turn of the century it’s been WBAL and WJZ. WJZ more so during NBC’s down turn.

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Speaking of the old Group-W stations, in Boston, wasn't WBZ once a pretty dominant station? At least before WCVB overtook the market and never really let go. It seemed like all of the Group-W stations were either a powerhouse number one or a strong second. WBZ faded a little during the 80s but they didn't completely collapse like KYW in Philadelphia. Is that more or less correct?

They remained a solid number two until the mid 90s, when WHDH overtook them because of A: the Ansin/Cheatwood tabloid approach bringing in viewers, and 2: the network switch, as CBS has been historically weak in Boston (they'd been with the original WHDH on channel 5 when it went down thanks to corruption on the part of their ownership, the Boston Herald-Traveler, then switched to WNAC by default (they'd switched from WNAC after RKO almost sold them to NBC}; they had their own troubles thanks to RKO being corrupt too, and that instability carried over to WNEV/WHDH despite their trouble-free ownership).

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WJW has been pretty solid since their affiliation switch and when viewers got used to it. Proof positive that less corporate meddling has benefitted WJW while the other stations have suffered as a result of corporate decisions over the years.

 

Now if Sinclair would have ended up with WJW (and the other Tribune stations) probably WOIO and WEWS would have benefitted from all of the forced changes that could have happened. Essentially WJW has run off the fumes from their stint as an O&O and Tribune has done little other than expanding newscasts...

Here the sad part WJW, WKYC & WOIO still best WEWS which is no longer the gold standard in Cleveland.

 

In 1978, the Big Red 9 took the throne, and largely because of the team, the habits of its viewers, and the RESEARCH (re: Martie Salt coming back, Sugalski lured from WESH), rare is a year when channel 9 ISN'T #1. While WESH and channel 6 (under its many forms) have made gains here and there, 9 remains king. (More to the fact that while the other stations have veteran reporters, it’s the anchors that have lasted longer at 9)

Don't forget when the Big Red 9 had Barbara West, Bob Opsahl & Marla Weech were apart of building the big red 9 into the powerhouse it's today.

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Let’s just be real. It’s always gonna come down to Big 13 and NewsChannel 8. (Longetivity)

Actually, just Big 13, now that Nexshit owns WFLA.

I want to say WFLA, but I'm not sure that's true anymore. I haven't seen total audience numbers in a long time. Everything is broken down by demographics in the Tampa/St. Pete market. WTVT and WFTS have really moved up, and even WTSP sometimes claims the 11 P.M. slot, if you believe their press release a few years back.

 

WFLA long claimed to have been a solid #1 at 5, 6 & 11 since 1995.

Now that WTSP is infected by TEGNAitis big time, I doubt WTSP has ever claimed the 11PM slot since 2017, and I also doubt they ever will in the future (unless WTSP can go back to being traditional).

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Here the sad part WJW, WKYC & WOIO still best WEWS which is no longer the gold standard in Cleveland.

Especially WJW. Yet WEWS is now in 2nd place because TEGNAitis infected WKYC, and WOIO still is dead last.

 

How is WKYC outside of their morning newscasts?

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Especially WJW. Yet WEWS is now in 2nd place because TEGNAitis infected WKYC, and WOIO still is dead last.

 

How is WKYC outside of their morning newscasts?

WKYC Morning news was 2nd behind WJW, but WKYC's AM news will be like the other TEGNA stations AM News....According to FTVLIVE.COM KYC's AM NEWS to be a social media experiment like WTSP & W*USA where it infotainment...So IMO maybe 3,5,19 could all tie while 8 leads the pack....

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WKYC Morning news was 2nd behind WJW, but WKYC's AM news will be like the other TEGNA stations AM News....According to FTVLIVE.COM KYC's AM NEWS to be a social media experiment like WTSP & W*USA where it infotainment...So IMO maybe 3,5,19 could all tie while 8 leads the pack....

I wasn't talking about WKYC's morning newscasts. I was talking about all their other newscasts.

 

Anyways, I used to think of the Deathstar as a good broadcaster. Now I exactly don't think that. What used to be Gannett is now TEGNA, a corrupt broadcaster that still happens to be better than Sincrap and Nexshit. Same with Scripps (another once-great broadcaster that is now corrupt, but still better than the mentioned mega groups). Both of those groups are like Sears, but at least TEGNA and Scripps are not bankrupt now, unlike Sears.

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I wasn't talking about WKYC's morning newscasts. I was talking about all their other newscasts.

 

Anyways, I used to think of the Deathstar as a good broadcaster. Now I exactly don't think that. What used to be Gannett is now TEGNA, a corrupt broadcaster that still happens to be better than Sincrap and Nexshit. Same with Scripps (another once-great broadcaster that is now corrupt, but still better than the mentioned mega groups). Both of those groups are like Sears, but at least TEGNA and Scripps are not bankrupt now, unlike Sears.

 

Not sure how they all rate currently, because there no accurate account recently. This is what I have from March 2014 from

 

http://www.partnersriley.com/whats-hot-with-cleveland-media/

 

6am Morning News

WJW (6.0)

WKYC (3.3)

WEWS (2.1)

WOIO (1.3)

 

6PM HH

WKYC 6pm News (6.1)

WJW 6pm News (5.4)

WEWS 6pm News (4.4)

WOIO 6pm News (3.6)

 

7PM Prime Access

WOIO Jeopardy (6.9)

WOIO Wheel of Fortune (6.2)

WKYC 7pm News (5.1)

WJW 7pm News (4.6)

WJW Big Bang Theory (5.4)

 

Late News

10pm News

WJW 10pm News (6.0)

WUAB 10pm News (2.2)

 

11pm News

WEWS 11pm News (5.6)

WKYC 11pm News (5.0)

WOIO 11pm News (3.9)

 

Adults 25-54

WJW wins the Local AM News and 10pm News areas. WEWS tops the 11pm News daypart, while WKYC claims the Early News arena.

 

Yeah, I'am in the same boat with you..Always held Gannett & Scripps as a high regard, top notch company, but since we're in a 24/7 digital news w/ social media...I feel these executives are looking for something to stick to the wall..Let hire a bunch of young people...Let implement social media, and all our internet sites. Let used the f*** out of breaking news...

While 25-30 years ago news was news and life was different...Technology wasn't as paramount as it's today, but they made do on what they had.

 

I say just tell us the news if we take out all this wonderful technology maybe you might get viewers...I love the news, but it has been watered down with all the crap that's nothing but a distraction...It would be nice if owners/have some stability in the role of managment GM & ND could be on the same page....

 

When looking at TEGNA & Scripps both their footprint looks so similar as in their product...That their newscast has become so cookie cutter, and yes you have to be innovative, but both have missed their mark.. Cox, Hearst & Graham seem to be more measured in the way their product of their newscast is being produced & marketed.

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I wasn't talking about WKYC's morning newscasts. I was talking about all their other newscasts.

 

Anyways, I used to think of the Deathstar as a good broadcaster. Now I exactly don't think that. What used to be Gannett is now TEGNA, a corrupt broadcaster that still happens to be better than Sincrap and Nexshit. Same with Scripps (another once-great broadcaster that is now corrupt, but still better than the mentioned mega groups). Both of those groups are like Sears, but at least TEGNA and Scripps are not bankrupt now, unlike Sears.

 

To draw some parallels, TEGNA is a lot like JCPenney under Ron Johnson (who came from Apple) and what Advance has done to their newspapers. JCPenney was run into the ground by trying to cater a mid-level department store to stylish millennials and Advance destroyed the "daily" newspaper in their markets with awful sites that just poach news from other sources...

 

WKYC catching the TEGNAitis bug is a blow because they were one of the holdouts. Now when it reaches WMAZ (if it hasn't already) is when you can stick a fork in them and especially if a station like WMAZ loses its death grip over Macon viewers....

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To draw some parallels, TEGNA is a lot like JCPenney under Ron Johnson (who came from Apple) and what Advance has done to their newspapers. JCPenney was run into the ground by trying to cater a mid-level department store to stylish millennials and Advance destroyed the "daily" newspaper in their markets with awful sites that just poach news from other sources...

 

WKYC catching the TEGNAitis bug is a blow because they were one of the holdouts. Now when it reaches WMAZ (if it hasn't already) is when you can stick a fork in them and especially if a station like WMAZ loses its death grip over Macon viewers....

 

What about WBIR? I don't think it has hit them yet either.

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To draw some parallels, TEGNA is a lot like JCPenney under Ron Johnson (who came from Apple) and what Advance has done to their newspapers. JCPenney was run into the ground by trying to cater a mid-level department store to stylish millennials and Advance destroyed the "daily" newspaper in their markets with awful sites that just poach news from other sources...

An aside here. I liked what JCP did under Johnson, - clothes at cost, no sales - but it was just too much, too soon for the world. But let’s get real. You can’t get mad at a retailer for trying to stop doing the kind of stuff you bring lawsuits for.

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At one time KSDK was very dominate in St. Louis getting a 50share at one time. That was then, and now KSDK is a shell of it former self.

 

yup.... up until those bastards at tegna debut these horrible flat graphics and awful music, right???

 

at one point they had a 100% share... for 6 whole years.... then KTVI signed on... thos were the days...

 

tvnewstalk never fails me when it comes to meaningless recollections of the way things was back in the golden age...

 

:rolleyes:

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I feel like it's a lot rarer to see a dominant CBS affiliate in a top 100 market than a dominant NBC tbh.

 

The network's O&Os, outside of WCCO and KDKA, are longtime also-rans.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but only WBNS, KWCH, KCCI, WKYT, WHIO, WFSB (?), and perhaps WTVF stick out as "dominant" -- at least in terms of ratings and product. The New World switches really hit them.

 

Perhaps you could add WDBJ -- I'm not sure what Gray has done to them. KUTV is getting there now that KSL's star has dramatically fallen.

 

Otherwise it seems like CBS's most dominant stations are in sub-100s (KELO, KOLN/KGIN, WCTV, WBOC, etc)

 

I would go so far as to say CBS, on the balance, probably has the weakest top-100 stations of the big-3s and it's not even close. (The O&Os-esp WWJ, WGCL, WTSP, WUSA, WNCN, KMTV, KGAN, WDEF, WIAT, etc). ABC is probably second on account of having duds like KDNL, WXLV and WLNE. I would say NBC has the strongest.

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Has WKYC they blown up the format of their evening newscasts, or are they still more traditional? Based on those numbers a few posts up they're at least more competitive in the evenings, so if corporate/management absolutely had to blow up the format, better to do it on mornings where they aren't as competitive (I know...unpopular opinion...). A few months ago I tried to stream one of their evening newscasts, and had issues...WJW's stream worked flawlessly, though...

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Has WKYC they blown up the format of their evening newscasts, or are they still more traditional? Based on those numbers a few posts up they're at least more competitive in the evenings, so if corporate/management absolutely had to blow up the format, better to do it on mornings where they aren't as competitive (I know...unpopular opinion...). A few months ago I tried to stream one of their evening newscasts, and had issues...WJW's stream worked flawlessly, though...

Other than "Donovan Live", which you could argue is a mild revamp of the 7pm newscast, WKYC has largely stayed traditional at 6pm and 11pm. As far as WKYC failing in the mornings, I'm going to say this: As Gannett has giveth, Tegna will taketh.

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I feel like it's a lot rarer to see a dominant CBS affiliate in a top 100 market than a dominant NBC tbh.

 

The network's O&Os, outside of WCCO and KDKA, are longtime also-rans.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but only WBNS, KWCH, KCCI, WKYT, WHIO, WFSB (?), and perhaps WTVF stick out as "dominant" -- at least in terms of ratings and product. The New World switches really hit them.

 

Perhaps you could add WDBJ -- I'm not sure what Gray has done to them. KUTV is getting there now that KSL's star has dramatically fallen.

 

Otherwise it seems like CBS's most dominant stations are in sub-100s (KELO, KOLN/KGIN, WCTV, WBOC, etc)

 

I would go so far as to say CBS, on the balance, probably has the weakest top-100 stations of the big-3s and it's not even close. (The O&Os-esp WWJ, WGCL, WTSP, WUSA, WNCN, KMTV, KGAN, WDEF, WIAT, etc). ABC is probably second on account of having duds like KDNL, WXLV and WLNE. I would say NBC has the strongest.

 

I wouldn't call WTVF dominant, yes they're number 1 but that's only because of the stability of their people. It's not because they have award winning news coverage because WSMV and WKRN and even sometimes WZTV typically report things a lot sooner and with greater accuracy. But because WTVF has the familiar faces, people would rather get days old news from them than the latest news from the others.

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