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Question about Market/Network Dominance

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Not a list thread, but it seems like there are many markets where the ABC station is dominant (NYC, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, LA). Pittsburgh was perennially dominated by CBS for the most part, with ABC as a solid second. Is there any market with a long-time dominant NBC station?

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Locally I want to say Baltimore and Washington. With WRAL now affiliated with NBC I’d include them on that list.

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Two of the ex-Outlet stations were very dominant through the 1980s and 1990s, even into the mid-2000s -- Outlet's flagship in Providence, WJAR, was a powerhouse and remained so as an O&O and through the first few years of Media General. WJAR, under Sinclair, is nowhere near what it was under Outlet/NBC/MG.

 

WCMH in Columbus was also a powerhouse -- especially in the mid-1980s with Doug Adair and Mona Scott -- later Angela Pace. After the Outlet stations were sold to NBC they remained a powerhouse -- even beating market-leader WBNS at 11pm for the first time in a decade due to NBC's then-strong primetime lineup. 4 even beat 10 in the mornings multiple times in the early and mid 2000s due to the Today Show's dominance.

 

Media General came in and destroyed everything in Columbus, while largely leaving Providence alone.

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WDIV in Detroit have been fighting with WXYZ for the last 30 years trading spots. In the 80s despite WXYZ dominance. WDIV would either be a strong #2 or neck-to neck. Once the 94 switch happened; WDIV was able to battle w/ WXYZ in a neck-to neck ratings by late 90s into 2000s. WDIV beat XYZ and for the last few ratings WDIV been #1.

 

Under the old Gannett mantra KUSA9 & KARE 11 were able to become #1 & NBC's top affiliates. Gannett would dump a lot of money into the operations. Also remember KUSA was once ABC & KARE was an Indy outlet. Back then under Gannett they invested heavily into both operations. It a different story now since it TEGNA.

 

KCRA has long time dominated the market as well WSFA (Montgomery) which is a small market, but the market has always got a 30 share.

 

ABC has always done well in the big major cities, and NBC for last 20-30 years do well in both major and medium markets and some small markets. CBS did well in the big cities in the 60s & 70s. By the 80s CBS affiliates did horrible in Chicago, LA, NYC, Detroit, as well through the 90s. CBS does well in medium and small markets in very rural areas. We can't forget FOX which just became a contender last 15-20 years.

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Two of the ex-Outlet stations were very dominant through the 1980s and 1990s, even into the mid-2000s -- Outlet's flagship in Providence, WJAR, was a powerhouse and remained so as an O&O and through the first few years of Media General. WJAR, under Sinclair, is nowhere near what it was under Outlet/NBC/MG.

 

WCMH in Columbus was also a powerhouse -- especially in the mid-1980s with Doug Adair and Mona Scott -- later Angela Pace. After the Outlet stations were sold to NBC they remained a powerhouse -- even beating market-leader WBNS at 11pm for the first time in a decade due to NBC's then-strong primetime lineup. 4 even beat 10 in the mornings multiple times in the early and mid 2000s due to the Today Show's dominance.

 

Media General came in and destroyed everything in Columbus, while largely leaving Providence alone.

 

WCMH's best days were in the 1980s w/ Doug, Mona, Angela, Jimmy & Jim. By 1990, Mona moved to Orlando to work at WCPX (WKMG) and Angela, moved up & moved over to BNS. When it was contract time she wanted more $$$ and BNS was going to give her an exclusive contract and became the highest paid personality in the market. Doug would retired in 1994 & Jim would retired as well too.

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Not a list thread, but it seems like there are many markets where the ABC station is dominant (NYC, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Boston, LA). Pittsburgh was perennially dominated by CBS for the most part, with ABC as a solid second. Is there any market with a long-time dominant NBC station?

 

The only such markets I can think of now off the top of my head are Lake Charles, LA (KPLC), Alexandria, LA (KALB), the Quad Cities (KWQC), & Jackson, MS (WLBT). I think there may be a few others....

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WCMH's best days were in the 1980s w/ Doug, Mona, Angela, Jimmy & Jim. By 1990, Mona moved to Orlando to work at WCPX (WKMG) and Angela, moved up & moved over to BNS. When it was contract time she wanted more $$$ and BNS was going to give her an exclusive contract and became the highest paid personality in the market. Doug would retired in 1994 & Jim would retired as well too.

 

Jimmy Crum went into semi-retirement in 1994 but continued to make appearances on NBC 4 until 2005 — in 1999 he hosted coverage of the Red, White and Boom! parade with Dari Alexander and John Ivanic, and did the Easter Seals telethon for a number of years... after the sale to NBC closed, the telethon ended because NBC doesn’t allow telethons.

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Several of Gray's medium/small market NBC stations come to mind -- KWQC is probably the best example. There's also KFYR, WEAU, WLUC, and probably a couple others.

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Okay I may have set a bad example in replying. This has turned into a list thread.

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I think the ABC dominance mentioned in the largest markets is a result of how ABC treats their O&Os. They’re generally well funded and well run, especially compared to the CBS outfits in the same cities.

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I think the ABC dominance mentioned in the largest markets is a result of how ABC treats their O&Os. They’re generally well funded and well run, especially compared to the CBS outfits in the same cities.

 

I’ve had a theory I’ve had in my head for a long time that CBS’ national news shows (CTM, EN) are contributing to the O&Os’ low ratings in very important markets. With a few exceptions, of course.

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I’ve had a theory I’ve had in my head for a long time that CBS’ national news shows (CTM, EN) are contributing to the O&Os’ low ratings in very important markets. With a few exceptions, of course.

Reverse effect of a bad lead-in. I agree with you, it probably has an effect. There are CBS affiliates who break this cycle (WRAL was one) but outside the top O&O markets it’s generally a station with a strong heritage (again, WRAL) or possibly not much competition. There are far more news options and more parity between the quality of newscasts in the top 10.

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Reverse effect of a bad lead-in. I agree with you, it probably has an effect. There are CBS affiliates who break this cycle (WRAL was one) but outside the top O&O markets it’s generally a station with a strong heritage (again, WRAL) or possibly not much competition. There are far more news options and more parity between the quality of newscasts in the top 10.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but even in the Raleigh Market WTVD the ABC o&o station is now number 1? WRAL switching to NBC seems to have lessen their powerhouse status.

 

WRC In DC til this day is still a powerhouse NBC o&o; mainly due to the late Jim Vance & Doreen Gentzler, George Michael, Bob Ryan.

WNBC (Chuck & Sue) & KNBC were powerhouse stations.

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Okay I may have set a bad example in replying. This has turned into a list thread.

 

I still think it's an interesting discussion. "We" never seem to think of NBC affiliates and locally powerhouse stations, probably because of NBCs dark days in the late 00s and early 10s. That also brings up another interesting point; how many of those power stations are power stations simply because of their affiliation, or because of the talent?

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Very technically, WMUR (ABC) dominates the Manchester portion of the Boston DMA (so, basically the NH portion) by virtue of there being no direct, in-state competition. I have no idea how WMUR fares against the Boston stations, though, as I've never seen ratings for just the NH side.

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I still think it's an interesting discussion. "We" never seem to think of NBC affiliates and locally powerhouse stations, probably because of NBCs dark days in the late 00s and early 10s. That also brings up another interesting point; how many of those power stations are power stations simply because of their affiliation, or because of the talent?

 

WSMV was once a powerhouse number 1 station, beating out WTVF in most timeslots until about the early 2000s when WTVF got more resources and was able to better compete. WSMV's dominance was due to it's people, the late Dan Miller, Demetria Kalodimos, Rudy Kalis, and the late Bill Hall. Kalis retired, Dan and Bill passed away, and everyone knows the one-sided story of what happened to Demetria.

 

With a dominant WTVF and a resurgent WKRN under Nexstar, WSMV is battling for 2nd and usually placing 3rd. In a market like Nashville, people "don't forget" and don't take change very well which has contributed to WSMV's demise.

 

They're working hard to rebuild the station to be dominant again, so they may be able to keep WKRN off of them, but I don't foresee them ever overtaking WTVF again unless their people retire/leave/die off and are replaced like what happened with WSMV. Also, Scripps has been able to continue to pour money and resources into WTVF that the other stations have not been able to get, like sending a reporter, photographer, and a sports anchor to London to cover the Tennessee Titans game.

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I still think it's an interesting discussion. "We" never seem to think of NBC affiliates and locally powerhouse stations, probably because of NBCs dark days in the late 00s and early 10s. That also brings up another interesting point; how many of those power stations are power stations simply because of their affiliation, or because of the talent?

 

That’s a good point. It’s probably because of talent and newscast quality (or people who are essentially trained to watch a channel no matter what like WPVI). Sure ABC is doing good with GMA and WNT but they aren’t the lead in to local news and the fact that they succeed at 11 while ABC is in 3rd place shows a lot.

 

And I agree we think of NBC less because of their network struggles in the late aughts. It caused most NBC stations to loose some ratings points and those that we’re talking about did suffer but either stayed at #1 or a strong and close #2 that took over when NBC returned.

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WKYC became more a powerhouse after the CBS-FOX switch back in 1994, and even more so in 2002, when Dr. Phil debuted his talk show on the station in the 5pm time slot. Since then, they've been either #1 or recently a solid #2 behind the almost-always popular WJW.

 

WEWS was once dominant, especially immediately after that switch, but around the early 2000's, they started to go downhill. WOIO was a non-factor until they were Action News, especially at Noon and 11pm. Not sure where they are at now with their current, traditional format.

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Correct me if I’m wrong but even in the Raleigh Market WTVD the ABC o&o station is now number 1? WRAL switching to NBC seems to have lessen their powerhouse status.
WTVD has been slowly gaining on WRAL for a long time. At this point they’re passing the crown back and forth for #1 depending on the time of day. WTVD produces a good newscast but it’s very generic. Transplants probably have a lot to do with their rise.
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At one time KSDK was very dominate in St. Louis getting a 50share at one time. That was then, and now KSDK is a shell of it former self.

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WKYC became more a powerhouse after the CBS-FOX switch back in 1994, and even more so in 2002, when Dr. Phil debuted his talk show on the station in the 5pm time slot. Since then, they've been either #1 or recently a solid #2 behind the almost-always popular WJW.

 

WEWS was once dominant, especially immediately after that switch, but around the early 2000's, they started to go downhill. WOIO was a non-factor until they were Action News, especially at Noon and 11pm. Not sure where they are at now with their current, traditional format.

 

Well look at it this way... Cleveland is trash except WJW. WKYC was also its former shell until TEGNA took it and started trashing it. Look at their mornings now, more trash than before.

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The ABC stations in Tyler-Longview (KLTV, KTRE) have been local ratings-getters mainly for their creature-of-habit market (the 2 stations were historically the cherry-pickers before any other stations came along), more than having ABC as their network.

 

Meanwhile, in Dallas-Fort Worth, NBC station WBAP (before it was KXAS) had been tops in the ratings before the rise of ABC station WFAA in the 1970s. In recent years, the major locals have traded places with no one station consistently dominant. KDFW might be a timeslot exception, with their pre-7am portions of Good Day pretty much running away with that slot, as well as KDFW's 9pm newscast which figures highly most every night.

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Well look at it this way... Cleveland is trash except WJW. WKYC was also its former shell until TEGNA took it and started trashing it. Look at their mornings now, more trash than before.

 

WJW has been pretty solid since their affiliation switch and when viewers got used to it. Proof positive that less corporate meddling has benefitted WJW while the other stations have suffered as a result of corporate decisions over the years.

 

Now if Sinclair would have ended up with WJW (and the other Tribune stations) probably WOIO and WEWS would have benefitted from all of the forced changes that could have happened. Essentially WJW has run off the fumes from their stint as an O&O and Tribune has done little other than expanding newscasts...

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