jerseyfla 193 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have noticed since moving to Dayton, Ohio this past July that one of our stations, WDTN has their normal NBC station on 2.1 and an SD repeater on 2.2. What is the point in this?!! Why waste bandwidth with a simultaneous feed when clearly there are better uses like a radar loop or another subchannel that is not in the market like MeTV or Antenna TV? Anyone else live in a market with wasted bandwidth like this and irked about it? (If this needs to be moved to the Breakroom, let me know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1675 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Some stations may not have the proper encoder for the Auto Format Description which should down convert the HD image into either a 4:3 picture by chopping off the sides or they would give you a letter boxed 16:9 feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvcg66b3r 97 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 They do it in Jackson TN with WBBJ: regular ABC feed on 7.1, SAP on 7.2, both in 720p. They could easily move CBS to 7.2 and make MeTV full-time on 7.3. http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WBBJ It's the same at two other Bahakel stations: WOLO ABC Columbia and WFXB FOX Myrtle Beach. http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WOLO#station http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WFXB#station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compubit 670 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 But, if you look closely at WBBJ's Stream Data, their using stream 0x31 (video) for both WBBJ-DT and WBBJ-DV, and stream 0x34 (normal audio) for WBBJ-DT vs, stream 0x35 (DV audio) for WBBJ-DV. No additional bandwidth for the two channels (other than the 2 audio streams and the overhead for 2 streams rather than 1). Other stations run the alternate audio (0x35 in this case) programmed as a SAP select (rather than a sub-channel). J p.s., I see they're still using -DT (as of December 2013) for the stream name - when their real call sign is WBBJ-TV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have noticed since moving to Dayton, Ohio this past July that one of our stations, WDTN has their normal NBC station on 2.1 and an SD repeater on 2.2. What is the point in this?!! Why waste bandwidth with a simultaneous feed when clearly there are better uses like a radar loop or another subchannel that is not in the market like MeTV or Antenna TV? Anyone else live in a market with wasted bandwidth like this and irked about it? (If this needs to be moved to the Breakroom, let me know) So does WLS in Chicago... and thats owned by the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1675 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So does WLS in Chicago... and thats owned by the network. Several if not all of the ABC O&Os carry both the HD and SD versions of Livewell Network on their mux. But for some reason they only carry the HD feed of the network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns8401 846 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Several if not all of the ABC O&Os carry both the HD and SD versions of Livewell Network on their mux. But for some reason they only carry the HD feed of the network. That's what I was thinking of... thanks. I knew there was 2 of something on channel 7 in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess 1110 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 And LWN is shutting down soon. WPVI has already scuttled all references to it, pointing viewers to "channel 6.2" when warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Member 207 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, I always thought that Live Well on two subchannels (on the ABC O&Os) was a waste, but that was neccessary because ABC dropped the AccuWeather Channels on their .3s. Instead of just replacing the .3s with at least local content (like they did on the .2s before Live Well became a full-time service) or shutting them it down although, ABC continues to waste bandwidth on two feeds of a channel that many don't care about (and thus why they're shutting down for good in January). I know Fox does this in a few of their duopoly markets, but here in Los Angeles, KTTV broadcasts a standard-def simulcast of their programming on one of KCOP's subchannels (but maps back to channel 11.2). KCOP itself has four subchannels--the main channel with MyTV, the aforementioned KTTV simulcast, Bounce TV (which will soon move to the one of the Univision-owned stations by next year), and Movies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToriElectra 291 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Retro TV could count, because they've lost everything "retro" that they used to run to competitors (Antenna, This, etc.); the only good stuff they have is Classic Media stuff, and apparently reruns of Mystery Science Theater 3000 are coming soon; other than that, all they've got is cheap barter stuff like ancient Crook & Chase episodes, and *shudder* Merv Griffin's Crosswords. They should've died a long while ago. Concering Fox's subchannels, the whole "simulcast the sister station in SD" is very redundant; they do it here in NY too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Member 207 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Retro TV could count, because they've lost everything "retro" that they used to run to competitors (Antenna, This, etc.); the only good stuff they have is Classic Media stuff, and apparently reruns of Mystery Science Theater 3000 are coming soon; other than that, all they've got is cheap barter stuff like ancient Crook & Chase episodes, and *shudder* Merv Griffin's Crosswords. They should've died a long while ago. Concering Fox's subchannels, the whole "simulcast the sister station in SD" is very redundant; they do it here in NY too. I've had a chance to sample RTV (or RTN, or whatever the hell it was back then) via a couple of low-rent, rim-shot channels here locally, and definitely wasn't impressed. From everything I read about RTV in the last few years, I'm still surprised that it's still around especially since Antenna and Me-TV (plus others like Cozi, Bounce, and This TV) have taken all of the good/popular retro product. A bigger waste of bandwidth to me is those all-informercial channels, and there's a glut of those here locally...in English and Spanish, not to mention those "pay for pray" subchannels also (and I'm not talking the TBN suite of channels either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WXmanTim 88 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Retro TV could count, because they've lost everything "retro" that they used to run to competitors (Antenna, This, etc.); the only good stuff they have is Classic Media stuff, and apparently reruns of Mystery Science Theater 3000 are coming soon; other than that, all they've got is cheap barter stuff like ancient Crook & Chase episodes, and *shudder* Merv Griffin's Crosswords. They should've died a long while ago. Concering Fox's subchannels, the whole "simulcast the sister station in SD" is very redundant; they do it here in NY too. Interesting. They don't do that here in Houston. Perhaps because KTXH carries MundoFox on the .3 (Movies! is on .2). MundoFox is also simulcast on KUVM-CD 34 (which had a terrible OTA signal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkolsen 1675 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yeah, I always thought that Live Well on two subchannels (on the ABC O&Os) was a waste, but that was neccessary because ABC dropped the AccuWeather Channels on their .3s. Instead of just replacing the .3s with at least local content (like they did on the .2s because Live Well became a full-time service) or shutting them it down although, ABC continues to waste bandwidth on two feeds of a channel that many don't care about (and thus why they're shutting down for good in January). I know Fox does this in a few of their duopoly markets, but here in Los Angeles, KTTV broadcasts a standard-def simulcast of their programming on one of KCOP's subchannels (but maps back to channel 11.2). KCOP itself has four subchannels--the main channel with MyTV, the aforementioned KTTV simulcast, Bounce TV (which will soon move to the one of the Univision-owned stations by next year), and Movies! Come to think of it they may have kept the .3s as a Livewell SD simulcast simply because they wanted to keep the channel open on existing cable systems so they wouldn't loose their programming slot in the same channel neighborhood. Say your HD channel is channel 206, your .2 is 207 and if you wanted to launch a .3 you could end up in the 400s. As for the Fox/MyNet simulcasts I believe it was mentioned here and on other places is that they simulcast on the opposite network so that viewers would have a greater chance of receiving both networks especially if ones a VHF and the others a UHF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Member 207 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Our local Time Warner system in L.A. kept both feeds of Live Well for about a year or so after the changeover from AccuWeather to Live Well on DT3. Now, TWC only carries the SD version of Live Well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVIntheDesert 183 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Interesting. They don't do that here in Houston. Perhaps because KTXH carries MundoFox on the .3 (Movies! is on .2). MundoFox is also simulcast on KUVM-CD 34 (which had a terrible OTA signal). In the cases of Phoenix and Minneapolis-St. Paul, the FOX SD simulcasts on sister MyNet subchannels are needed because KSAZ and KMSP's VHF primary signals are difficult to pick up for some OTA viewers. I've had a chance to sample RTV (or RTN, or whatever the hell it was back then) via a couple of low-rent, rim-shot channels here locally, and definitely wasn't impressed. From everything I read about RTV in the last few years, I'm still surprised that it's still around especially since Antenna and Me-TV (plus others like Cozi, Bounce, and This TV) have taken all of the good/popular retro product. The only show worth watching on Retro TV is MST3K, and that's on twice a week (same episode played Saturday and Sunday). They've taken the America One approach to public-domain programming with awful prints and low-cost barter shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrknowitall526 108 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have friends without cable who watch QVC over the air on the local Ion station. When they first told me about it I didn't believe it until I googled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershock MN 169 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 In the cases of Phoenix and Minneapolis-St. Paul, the FOX SD simulcasts on sister MyNet subchannels are needed because KSAZ and KMSP's VHF primary signals are difficult to pick up for some OTA viewers. That's exactly why it was done up here (MSP). But, I've never been able to figure out why it was done in LA and NY. The LA stations are both on VHF channels and, the NY stations are both on UHF channels. However, the PHX and MSP duopolies are one VHF channel and one UHF channel. So, I'm not sure what was really gained from the LA and NY simulcasts. And, the SD simulcasts disappeared up here a few months ago. They were replaced with a FOX HD simulcast. So, now I can blow peoples minds when I tell them that if they are watching "Fox 9" on 9.1 OTA they aren't watching via KMSP. Plus, they finally upgraded KFTC to HD with the same "Dual HD" configuration a couple weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanewsguy 509 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 That's exactly why it was done up here (MSP). But, I've never been able to figure out why it was done in LA and NY. The LA stations are both on VHF channels and, the NY stations are both on UHF channels. However, the PHX and MSP duopolies are one VHF channel and one UHF channel. So, I'm not sure what was really gained from the LA and NY simulcasts. And, the SD simulcasts disappeared up here a few months ago. They were replaced with a FOX HD simulcast. So, now I can blow peoples minds when I tell them that if they are watching "Fox 9" on 9.1 OTA they aren't watching via KMSP. Plus, they finally upgraded KFTC to HD with the same "Dual HD" configuration a couple weeks ago. So KMSP virtual 9.9 is the real KMSP .1 signal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalekusa 0 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The only show worth watching on Retro TV is MST3K, and that's on twice a week (same episode played Saturday and Sunday). They've taken the America One approach to public-domain programming with awful prints and low-cost barter shows. Isn't OG Doctor Who on Retro now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershock MN 169 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 So KMSP virtual 9.9 is the real KMSP .1 signal? Yes, 9.9 is the primary stream from the KMSP transmitter. 9.1 is a simulcast from the WFTC transmitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Former Member 207 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Both KTTV and KCOP transmit from Mount Wilson (like most of the other L.A. stations), and I believe they even share the same transmitter tower. However, I've always had some trouble via the "rabbit ears" receiving both stations at the same time; it's usually either one of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVIntheDesert 183 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 And, the SD simulcasts disappeared up here a few months ago. They were replaced with a FOX HD simulcast. So, now I can blow peoples minds when I tell them that if they are watching "Fox 9" on 9.1 OTA they aren't watching via KMSP. Plus, they finally upgraded KFTC to HD with the same "Dual HD" configuration a couple weeks ago. I wonder if Fox will do the same in Phoenix once Bounce TV jumps to one of the Univision subchannels next year? That would free up some bandwidth to make the KSAZ simulcast "near-HD." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Muck 4164 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The only show worth watching on Retro TV is MST3K, and that's on twice a week (same episode played Saturday and Sunday). I'm just shocked that reruns of MST3K landed on ANY broadcast outlet, given the royalty fees some of those movies incurred (and other producers refused to have their movies be featured after the fact)... not that it ever stopped DVD sales and circulated tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS8609 59 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Retro TV could count, because they've lost everything "retro" that they used to run to competitors (Antenna, This, etc.); the only good stuff they have is Classic Media stuff, and apparently reruns of Mystery Science Theater 3000 are coming soon; other than that, all they've got is cheap barter stuff like ancient Crook & Chase episodes, and *shudder* Merv Griffin's Crosswords. They should've died a long while ago. Concering Fox's subchannels, the whole "simulcast the sister station in SD" is very redundant; they do it here in NY too. Retro TV is mostly airing a bunch of shows whose core demographics have largely died off, assuming that the Betty White hipster audience is large enough to justify reruns of Ozzie & Harriet, Petticoat Junction and a bunch of other shows from the pre-Rural Purge days. They're still airing the infamous Crosswords but the old Crook & Chase stuff has moved over to Heartland, which is more appropriate considering its ties to Ye Olde Nashville Network. Still, considering the latter, you might as well schedule old reruns of Mike Douglas, Dinah and Hour Magazine with Gary Collins. And don't get me started on Donahue or Geraldo...that's another matter unless Retro TV's vault ends up poorer than Al Capone's. I've had a chance to sample RTV (or RTN, or whatever the hell it was back then) via a couple of low-rent, rim-shot channels here locally, and definitely wasn't impressed. From everything I read about RTV in the last few years, I'm still surprised that it's still around especially since Antenna and Me-TV (plus others like Cozi, Bounce, and This TV) have taken all of the good/popular retro product. A bigger waste of bandwidth to me is those all-informercial channels, and there's a glut of those here locally...in English and Spanish, not to mention those "pay for pray" subchannels also (and I'm not talking the TBN suite of channels either). Yes, the infomercial channels are a real waste...my local Xfinity outside Houston airs them where the educational access and viewer submitted public access channels would be, since all we have is a standard municipal access channel that airs every local government board meeting. And even asides from TBN, which has plenty of family shenanigans of its own (plus warnings from charity watchdogs), the "pay for pray" subchannel industry is one giant farce...which explains why you don't see prominent Houston churches like Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church, Ed Young's Second Baptist Church or the local First Presbyterian Church operating subchannels, airing their tape-delayed sermons in between Sunday morning talk shows and sports coverage on the major stations in Houston is good enough. Interesting. They don't do that here in Houston. Perhaps because KTXH carries MundoFox on the .3 (Movies! is on .2). MundoFox is also simulcast on KUVM-CD 34 (which had a terrible OTA signal). Even outside of infomercials and religion, some of the LPTV channels even waste the bandwidth with stretched 240p channels of international feeds that come off better on streaming services. But now with Fox selling its stake in MundoFox, it's going to be interesting to see whether or not this arrangement continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WXmanTim 88 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Interesting you brought this topic back up. I've noticed KUVM's Retro TV feed is off the air. Anyone know If the netlet has gone under? I know there really wasn't much of interest on there, aside from prime time reruns of classic "Dr. Who" and the NBC sudser "The Doctors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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