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Thread Note: Since Scripps has indicated they intend to run ION Media as a separate entity from their existing (mostly) news-producing stations, ION discussion has been relocated to a new thread.

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Ok your arguement has value and merit, but remember young people don't watch news, or television. Young people are getting news from social media, or watching from their phones, tablet. If they're watching news. They will not sit for an hour or 30 minute newscast. They may watch a minute clip. Now, you can't dismiss the 35-49 demographic viewer that more educated, and more consumer savvy, and income more stable. Also the consumer who grew up watching that same station with their parents/ grandparents. That brand has stand out for generations.

 

Again, you said some dated logo & slogan from 70s serving as their brand, but let look at WSB/Atlanta- Coverage You Can Count On slogan since 1991. #1 station in the market.

 

WCVB/Boston, WATE/Pittsburgh, WISN/Milwaukee the Hearst station have had the same logo since the 70s, but they've just kept their news fresh and kept up with the times.

WXYZ/Detroit another Scripps station and the circle 7 been there for along time when it was owned by ABC. Yes, it been modifed but circle 7 is very synonymous with WXYZ and their brand.

 

McDonalds brand is the golden arches it been modifed over the years. Since 1971, Nike had the swoosh, and different versions. A girl with freckles and pigtails is the Wendy's brand. There are some logos that have been with brands for decades now. They've just modifed/refresh with new color, but the brand has kept up with the times.

 

WEWS/Circle 5 and First in Ohio....The first tv station in the state and the market. It maybe old, but it has defined their brand for decades. For Cleveland market the states biggest market. No, it not in the top ten. Des Monies, IA had the same logo on their Channel 5. Whoever said yes to WEWS logo thought it was the cat's meow, but it doesn't define WEWS' brand and looks cheap IMO.

For years, WEWS has been lagging behind WKYC and WJW and, at times, even WOIO. That's why WEWS rebranded the way that it did. Granted, the logo isn't great but only because it's super-generic. However, NewsChannel 5 as a brand wasn't cutting it just like Eyewitness News in 1990. That's why WEWS had to distance itself away and "start over".

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For years, WEWS has been lagging behind WKYC and WJW and, at times, even WOIO. That's why WEWS rebranded the way that it did. Granted, the logo isn't great but only because it's super-generic. However, NewsChannel 5 as a brand wasn't cutting it just like Eyewitness News in 1990. That's why WEWS had to distance itself away and "start over".

To be fair, WEWS has struggled in some way or form since the late 90s, right around the time WKYC managed to free themselves of the negative connotation of “NBC’s farm team station” and being “the third station” in the market.

 

But that’s part of the story. WEWS has had a litany of general managers and news directors since the late 1990s. Their new news director is the second straight one to come from KMGH. It took them a year to find a replacement for longtime anchor Ted Henry, and that replacement - Chris Flanagan - didn’t pan out. Then the station lost Oprah, Dr. Oz bombed badly and WoF/J! were lost due to corporate meddling.

 

Meanwhile, WJW took the clear and decisive lead in mornings - ground that WEWS had to cede completely when they were forced to move the groundbreaking “Morning Exchange” out of morning drive. WEWS has blown up their morning show roster at least half a dozen times over the past five years, and that’s not hyperbole.

 

A badly generic logo is the least of Lotto 5’s troubles.

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[quote name='NEOMatrix']For years, WEWS has been lagging behind WKYC and WJW and, at times, even WOIO. That's why WEWS rebranded the way that it did. Granted, the logo isn't great but only because it's super-generic. However, NewsChannel 5 as a brand wasn't cutting it just like Eyewitness News in 1990. That's why WEWS had to distance itself away and "start over".[/QUOTE] [QUOTE="Myron Falwell, post: 218319, member: 2210"]To be fair, WEWS has struggled in some way or form since the late 90s, right around the time WKYC managed to free themselves of the negative connotation of “NBC’s farm team station” and being “the third station” in the market. But that’s part of the story. WEWS has had a litany of general managers and news directors since the late 1990s. Their new news director is the second straight one to come from KMGH. It took them a year to find a replacement for longtime anchor Ted Henry, and that replacement - Chris Flanagan - didn’t pan out. Then the station lost Oprah, Dr. Oz bombed badly and WoF/J! were lost due to corporate meddling. Meanwhile, WJW took the clear and decisive lead in mornings - ground that WEWS had to cede completely when they were forced to move the groundbreaking “Morning Exchange” out of morning drive. WEWS has blown up their morning show roster at least half a dozen times over the past five years, and that’s not hyperbole. A badly generic logo is the least of Lotto 5’s troubles.[/QUOTE] @Myron Falwell is right in the late 90s/00s WEWS did struggle in the AM, but noon, 5,6 would win and 11pm would go to WKYC. However @NEOMatrix your right WEWS has struggle over the last few years. WKYC, WJW and even WOIO have been able to maintain it brand, and their product. Dispite WOIO's issues it still have persevere. 2013 was the last time I found WEWS to won 11pm. I agree WEWS and other Scripps stations. Their main issues have been the micromanaging of Scripps with those in-house shows. Getting rid of WoF/J was a mistake for those stations. I agree you can start over, but when you start over make sure your brand also matches your product. Their news product isn't as bad as I thought, but again this is a legacy station. The station legacy is remarkable, but here hoping somebody there could rectify the problem IMO. When people tell you they rather watch WOIO/19 or even think their product is more superior than the other established (3) stations in the market. That speaks volume!
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There have also been some bad press regarding WEWS during the last few years as well from two of their morning show personalities being let go after sharing on social media they were in line for a political event to two news superiors being let go following a mishandling of sending a crew to the house of an assault victim in a Cleveland suburb that's battling out the station in court over an investigation report related to ticketing.

 

Come to think of it, Chris Flanagan was co-anchor with Danita Harris of the 11pm news when it was #1 in 2013, and I thought he was a great anchor. I even heard that Good Morning Cleveland was #2 when Macie Jepson and Mike Dunston were the anchors back in 2012/13. That last one likely caused WKYC to move John Anderson back to mornings (and eventually have Lynna Lai join him), and have Chris Tye and Erin Kennedy reassigned to general assignment reporting. Seemed like the anchor hirings of 2011 was starting to pan out at 5 before some tinkering ruined it.

 

It was the tinkering after changing news directors in 2014 that's started WEWS' recent slide. A "young and hip" GMC team didn't have time to pan out following those late 2016 firings (only Terrence Lee remains from that team), the revolving door continues to spin among on-air talent, some talent gets more airtime than others, and the aforementioned bad press didn't help. Not to mention WJW is unstoppable, WKYC is still solid, and WOIO is looking a lot better all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they're once again pulling ahead of WEWS in the ratings.

 

There were times between 2001 and now that WEWS had signs of life in the ratings, only for the station to find ways to mess it up again. I still remember when after the 2004 makeover, WOIO started beating them out at 11pm. Seems to be up-and-down since then.

 

The station does have a good news product. They just can't keep up with WKYC and WJW. Hopefully the new news director will get the station back to the top of the ratings, and learn from the mistakes of the past.

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To be fair, WEWS has struggled in some way or form since the late 90s, right around the time WKYC managed to free themselves of the negative connotation of “NBC’s farm team station” and being “the third station” in the market.

 

But that’s part of the story. WEWS has had a litany of general managers and news directors since the late 1990s. Their new news director is the second straight one to come from KMGH. It took them a year to find a replacement for longtime anchor Ted Henry, and that replacement - Chris Flanagan - didn’t pan out. Then the station lost Oprah, Dr. Oz bombed badly and WoF/J! were lost due to corporate meddling.

 

Meanwhile, WJW took the clear and decisive lead in mornings - ground that WEWS had to cede completely when they were forced to move the groundbreaking “Morning Exchange” out of morning drive. WEWS has blown up their morning show roster at least half a dozen times over the past five years, and that’s not hyperbole.

 

A badly generic logo is the least of Lotto 5’s troubles.

 

Wasn't a former WKYC anchor at the time of Ted's retirement approached to fill the chair? I saw a lot of male reporters filling in for Ted's job, only for it to go unfilled until 2011. I even saw there was the possibility of one of the investigators replacing Ted with its morning show co-anchor joining him.

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The

Ok your arguement has value and merit, but remember young people don't watch news, or television. Young people are getting news from social media, or watching from their phones, tablet. If they're watching news. They will not sit for an hour or 30 minute newscast. They may watch a minute clip. Now, you can't dismiss the 35-49 demographic viewer that more educated, and more consumer savvy, and income more stable. Also the consumer who grew up watching that same station with their parents/ grandparents. That brand has stand out for generations.

 

Again, you said some dated logo & slogan from 70s serving as their brand, but let look at WSB/Atlanta- Coverage You Can Count On slogan since 1991. #1 station in the market.

 

WCVB/Boston, WATE/Pittsburgh, WISN/Milwaukee the Hearst station have had the same logo since the 70s, but they've just kept their news fresh and kept up with the times.

WXYZ/Detroit another Scripps station and the circle 7 been there for along time when it was owned by ABC. Yes, it been modifed but circle 7 is very synonymous with WXYZ and their brand.

 

McDonalds brand is the golden arches it been modifed over the years. Since 1971, Nike had the swoosh, and different versions. A girl with freckles and pigtails is the Wendy's brand. There are some logos that have been with brands for decades now. They've just modifed/refresh with new color, but the brand has kept up with the times.

 

WEWS/Circle 5 and First in Ohio....The first tv station in the state and the market. It maybe old, but it has defined their brand for decades. For Cleveland market the states biggest market. No, it not in the top ten. Des Monies, IA had the same logo on their Channel 5. Whoever said yes to WEWS logo thought it was the cat's meow, but it doesn't define WEWS' brand and looks cheap IMO.

 

I doubt the logo was changed with the express purpose of attracting the 21-54 demographic, but I'm sure that played a part. "Young people don't watch local television" is exactly the kind of thing they would be trying to change with a "hip" new logo/brand.

 

This isn't the first time this debate has come up about a TV station logo. I'm kind of getting tired of it. I don't think a lot of people on here understand the "usual" process that happens with this kind of change, especially when it comes to large markets and large broadcast companies like Scripps (who LOVES to research and focus group everything they can.) A logo change could stem from dozens of carefully researched problems a station is facing. If ratings are down, maybe it's time to conduct market research. Maybe the market research shows that the ol' reliable "classic" logo from 1973 isn't memorable after all amongst any age group. Maybe only senior citizens can remember what the "circle 5" logo means. Maybe they're even shown the old logo and a new logo next to each other, and asked: "which of these TV channels would you rather watch?"

 

I've seen (older) market research before, and it can even include showing people photos of talent and asking them who they are and what station they're on. It may shock you, but quite often people can't match a name to the face or a name/face to a station.

 

And then comes the focus groups. They might be shown the same news clips with different logos/bugs and, days later, asked which logo they remember seeing. People tend to remember more simple things, which is why most brand logos are pretty simple.

 

Market research is a science. There are big research companies that do this every day. Just because an old logo works on one station, doesn't mean that it's a universal fact that all viewers love classic logos. Changing the logo back to the Circle 5 is not going to make ratings skyrocket, and I doubt anyone tuned out because the logo changed. This is going to sound weird, especially after all I just said, but the vast majority of people don't care about a TV station's logo. The real goal is to make them remember the logo and remember the station and make the gears in their head turn when they're at work the next day, talking about something they saw on TV.

 

I will also argue that WISN has updated their logo several times over the years, changing the fonts and colors (and for a while, the angle) to keep up with the times.

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Dr. Oz bombed badly

Bombed badly on WEWS or in general. The numbers locally seem to do well.

I will also argue that WISN has updated their logo several times over the years, changing the fonts and colors (and for a while, the angle) to keep up with the times.

Praise the font gods that Bank Gothic has been removed from many of the Hearst station logos. It was good the 90s and early aughts and conveyed some sense of urgency. But like anything it gets dated.

 

 

I didn’t realize how bad the font was in hindsight when I read an article about the Baltimore Ravens put up one of Michael Phelps’ medal wins after a 2008 preseason game.

 

CE05FA90-4E88-4C00-9E53-6FD9742CEB53.jpeg.ddbd073b17aaa88f01f5242264936634.jpeg

 

Versus how it it appeared on the RavensVision boards in 2016:

 

B065F600-8D6B-4C94-A2D1-B336D42DDA8F.thumb.jpeg.ff28c18fead20f718363c79f0e134ff4.jpeg

 

 

 

Back to the topic at hand here’s an article about how TV consultants work. Not only do they to focus groups they analyze the Nielsen ratings to what type of story gets the most eyeballs.

 

Isn’t SNL Kagan the big TV consulting firm. There’s also a guy whose name I can’t remember who was involved with WSVN’s branding and now has a career in consulting.

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Bombed badly on WEWS or in general. The numbers locally seem to do well.

 

Praise the font gods that Bank Gothic has been removed from many of the Hearst station logos. It was good the 90s and early aughts and conveyed some sense of urgency. But like anything it gets dated.

 

 

I didn’t realize how bad the font was in hindsight when I read an article about the Baltimore Ravens put up one of Michael Phelps’ medal wins after a 2008 preseason game.

 

[ATTACH=full]6476[/ATTACH]

 

Versus how it it appeared on the RavensVision boards in 2016:

 

[ATTACH=full]6477[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Back to the topic at hand here’s an article about how TV consultants work. Not only do they to focus groups they analyze the Nielsen ratings to what type of story gets the most eyeballs.

 

Isn’t SNL Kagan the big TV consulting firm. There’s also a guy whose name I can’t remember who was involved with WSVN’s branding and now has a career in consulting.

 

Oh you mean my avatar..one Mr. Cheatwood who created the greatness of 7 News back in 1989. Sir..sadly Mr. Cheatwood works for a competitor now since Scripps wouldnt take any of my ideas. I'll show them. [end sarcasm]

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Bombed badly on WEWS or in general. The numbers locally seem to do well.

For some reason his show bombed on WEWS, to the point they flipped timeslots with it and a double run of Right this Minute (!).

 

Oz has done well at WJW since they added him, however.

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The

 

 

I doubt the logo was changed with the express purpose of attracting the 21-54 demographic, but I'm sure that played a part. "Young people don't watch local television" is exactly the kind of thing they would be trying to change with a "hip" new logo/brand.

 

This isn't the first time this debate has come up about a TV station logo. I'm kind of getting tired of it. I don't think a lot of people on here understand the "usual" process that happens with this kind of change, especially when it comes to large markets and large broadcast companies like Scripps (who LOVES to research and focus group everything they can.) A logo change could stem from dozens of carefully researched problems a station is facing. If ratings are down, maybe it's time to conduct market research. Maybe the market research shows that the ol' reliable "classic" logo from 1973 isn't memorable after all amongst any age group. Maybe only senior citizens can remember what the "circle 5" logo means. Maybe they're even shown the old logo and a new logo next to each other, and asked: "which of these TV channels would you rather watch?"

 

I've seen (older) market research before, and it can even include showing people photos of talent and asking them who they are and what station they're on. It may shock you, but quite often people can't match a name to the face or a name/face to a station.

 

And then comes the focus groups. They might be shown the same news clips with different logos/bugs and, days later, asked which logo they remember seeing. People tend to remember more simple things, which is why most brand logos are pretty simple.

 

Market research is a science. There are big research companies that do this every day. Just because an old logo works on one station, doesn't mean that it's a universal fact that all viewers love classic logos. Changing the logo back to the Circle 5 is not going to make ratings skyrocket, and I doubt anyone tuned out because the logo changed. This is going to sound weird, especially after all I just said, but the vast majority of people don't care about a TV station's logo. The real goal is to make them remember the logo and remember the station and make the gears in their head turn when they're at work the next day, talking about something they saw on TV.

 

I will also argue that WISN has updated their logo several times over the years, changing the fonts and colors (and for a while, the angle) to keep up with the times.

 

Well, we have a difference of opinion on the issue, but I look at detail, history, and how the brand is define, and messaging At the end of the day it all about packaging the product. Logos, sets, tv personalities, music, because it selling the station as a whole package to the consumer.

 

Of course market research is science by all means, and of course ratings come into play. Again, there are many top stations in the country with the same moniker branding name/ logo for (4) decades i.e. WABC, KABC, WLS, WPVI. Then you have even third place stations still stuck with the same logo and moniker name i.e. KSTP, WXIA and somehow I guess the market research wasn't too scientific for those station. Of Course logos have been modified from the Hearst Station to all the Circle 7, nobody is doubting that.

 

As for WEWS they could have 500 circle 5 logo, but the current one didn't execute their brand, their station legacy. Even though the station had another logo during 1998-2007 era wasn't bad as the current one. IMO I just think the current one sucks! Hey, you can be tired of talking about it until Brittany Spears comes out with a hit clothing line. We all have our likes, dislikes about the industry so what are you going to do about it? This is a forum for us to discuss about anything TV, right? We just have a difference of opinion which isn't new on here.

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  • 2 weeks later...
The

 

 

I doubt the logo was changed with the express purpose of attracting the 21-54 demographic, but I'm sure that played a part. "Young people don't watch local television" is exactly the kind of thing they would be trying to change with a "hip" new logo/brand.

 

This isn't the first time this debate has come up about a TV station logo. I'm kind of getting tired of it. I don't think a lot of people on here understand the "usual" process that happens with this kind of change, especially when it comes to large markets and large broadcast companies like Scripps (who LOVES to research and focus group everything they can.) A logo change could stem from dozens of carefully researched problems a station is facing. If ratings are down, maybe it's time to conduct market research. Maybe the market research shows that the ol' reliable "classic" logo from 1973 isn't memorable after all amongst any age group. Maybe only senior citizens can remember what the "circle 5" logo means. Maybe they're even shown the old logo and a new logo next to each other, and asked: "which of these TV channels would you rather watch?"

 

I've seen (older) market research before, and it can even include showing people photos of talent and asking them who they are and what station they're on. It may shock you, but quite often people can't match a name to the face or a name/face to a station.

 

And then comes the focus groups. They might be shown the same news clips with different logos/bugs and, days later, asked which logo they remember seeing. People tend to remember more simple things, which is why most brand logos are pretty simple.

 

Market research is a science. There are big research companies that do this every day. Just because an old logo works on one station, doesn't mean that it's a universal fact that all viewers love classic logos. Changing the logo back to the Circle 5 is not going to make ratings skyrocket, and I doubt anyone tuned out because the logo changed. This is going to sound weird, especially after all I just said, but the vast majority of people don't care about a TV station's logo. The real goal is to make them remember the logo and remember the station and make the gears in their head turn when they're at work the next day, talking about something they saw on TV.

 

I will also argue that WISN has updated their logo several times over the years, changing the fonts and colors (and for a while, the angle) to keep up with the times.

Impactful and original reporting also registers. Only 12

provides that on the most consistent basis.

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  • 3 weeks later...

WEWS now has TWO openings in the weather department - one part-time and temporary, the other for "Good Morning Cleveland." (Yup, another one from that show is gone!) JD Rudd appears to be gone from the station as his bio is no longer on the station's website.

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Ali Hoxie recently moved from KSHB to WXYZ... she needs some work on her delivery... first reporter I’ve seen in a while that looked nervous on camera and has experience on TV...

 

I’ve noticed a lot of intercompany transfers for Scripps lately...

Edited by Guest
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  • 3 weeks later...

There has been an active shooter at a hospital in Medina, Ohio, and this is what was going on the four news stations in Cleveland around 2:30pm and 3pm.

 

WKYC - local news coverage

WJW - local news coverage

WOIO - local news coverage

 

WEWS - General Hospital and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire!!!!!

News 5 didn't bother to go into breaking news coverage, except for a ticker at the bottom on-air, and of course its website and social media. To me, that's like saying not to bother watching the station anymore. That is a prime example of dropping the ball big time.

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There has been an active shooter at a hospital in Medina, Ohio, and this is what was going on the four news stations in Cleveland around 2:30pm and 3pm.

 

WKYC - local news coverage

WJW - local news coverage

WOIO - local news coverage

 

WEWS - General Hospital and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire!!!!!

News 5 didn't bother to go into breaking news coverage, except for a ticker at the bottom on-air, and of course its website and social media. To me, that's like saying not to bother watching the station anymore. That is a prime example of dropping the ball big time.

 

The situation was a hoax.

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WISN got burned by a in-market swatting hoax story last night during prime time they had as breaking news before the police said 'it isn't real' (and had to air a DWTS dance during their late news because of it). The 'details' may have also either scared WEWS from sending out anyone, or based on their sources, they may have decided there was more smoke than fire in what was going on.

 

When it comes to any of this, you don't want to be the station that gives the most attention or credence to a swatter and show 'this is fun!', so WEWS's caution was appropriate here. If the story grew, they just would have been late and had to catch up, and only the promo makers would have cared in the end.

Edited by mrschimpf
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