Whoa! Fox wants KCPQ!?

[channel2 869]

Why would Fox want WXMI? Grand Rapids is not a growing market and there is no strategic reason for Fox to have an O&O there.

[24994J 5269]

 

Why would Fox want WXMI? Grand Rapids is not a growing market and there is no strategic reason for Fox to have an O&O there.

 

One could argue that it's an NFC market. I do doubt that'd they'd go after it, though.

[GoldenShine9 1509]

Why would Fox want WXMI? Grand Rapids is not a growing market and there is no strategic reason for Fox to have an O&O there.

Grand Rapids IS the Lions' top secondary market and still a top-50 market, so an argument could be that it would fit like KTBC and WOFL/WOGX (although those are growing markets) if Tribune has to give something up. While Austin and Orlando are not NFL markets, they are important secondary markets for Fox.

[lugnuts6 89]

I was thinking of adding tribune's WGNO to the list, but I dont know if the saints owner would want to give up WVUE Fox 8 to return to being an ABC station , but would be interesting just to see if it went that far

[Samantha 2878]

 

I was thinking of adding tribune's WGNO to the list, but I dont know if the saints owner would want to give up WVUE Fox 8 to return to being an ABC station , but would be interesting just to see if it went that far

 

Much of the value of WVUE is related to its Fox affiliation. No way. While Raycom now operates it, the actual owner of the station is still Tom Benson, and it profits handsomely from its ability to carry up to 14 regular season Saints games a year.

[Rusty Muck 4164]

Much of the value of WVUE is related to its Fox affiliation. No way. While Raycom now operates it, the actual owner of the station is still Tom Benson, and it profits handsomely from its ability to carry up to 14 regular season Saints games a year.

Fox would know better than to mess with an actual NFL team owner. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

[Rusty Muck 4164]

Grand Rapids IS the Lions' top secondary market and still a top-50 market, so an argument could be that it would fit like KTBC and WOFL/WOGX (although those are growing markets) if Tribune has to give something up. While Austin and Orlando are not NFL markets, they are important secondary markets for Fox.

Is Greensboro a secondary market for the Panthers? Because the same case could then be made for Fox retaking WGHPiedmont...

[TVNewsLover 727]

A few comments:

• Does not seem like an even trade to me. Seems like Fox is getting a crown jewel in KCPQ while Tribune is getting a piece of crap in WPWR! It seems to have no value for them, especially as a MNTV affiliate!
  
• The little value that WPWR would seem to have would favor Fox keeping it! It is a duopoly station in DMA 3, which is also an NFC city! Is it possible that Fox is looking to unload all MNTV stations?
  
• St. Louis, New Orleans, Green Bay (Milwaukee): These are the other three NFC cities (besides Seattle) where Fox does not have an in. Who holds the cards in most of these situations? Tribune!! In St. Louis, Tribune owns KTVI (Fox affiliate) and KPLR (CW affiliate), which would be the most likely targets for Fox. In New Orleans, Tribune owns two of the three likely targets for Fox in WGNO (ABC affiliate) and WNOL (CW affiliate). WVUE seems to be off the table for as long as Tom Benson (Saints owner) owns it, and even then, I see Raycom getting first dibs, and they would have no problems signing back on with ABC if Fox tries to bully them. I doubt Fox wants a station in Green Bay, more likely is a station in Milwaukee. And who owns the Milwaukee Fox affiliate? You guessed it, Tribune! So I think Tribune has quite a few bargaining chips!
  
• KSTW - This seems to be Fox's best Plan B in my opinion. While CBS is not looking to sell, if anyone ever came calling for KSTW or WUPA, CBS would sell. Sure it's nice to have CW O&Os, but the fact that they're not tied to CBS O&Os makes them expendable. Question is, what should CBS demand in return? If I were them I'd make a strong case for WJBK in Detroit. That's one problem CBS was never able to make right. Throw in WKBD (former Fox affiliate) so Detroit still has a Fox O&O in an NFC market, and call it even! WJBK is one of Fox's weaker affiliates anyway!
  
• Seattle - Just a general comment: Surprised that there are not more O&Os here. It's a top DMA (14) and there are really no O&Os in the Pacific Northwest.
  

[24994J 5269]

I'm honestly not convinced that WPWR is the total clunker we're making it out to be. If Tribune is moving the secondary sports telecasts (so far Bull, and likely the White Sox) from WCIU to WPWR, having My50 under the umbrella would certainly bring in some ad revenue. It might also give the company some sort of leverage (don't know how, exactly) in the negotiations with the Cubs. The fact that nothing has been decided in that deal tells me that something is up, and WGN and friends aren't necessarily going down and out without a fight.

 

...Oh, and WPWR frequently outdraws its current sibling in the ratings.

[Rusty Muck 4164]

If CBS were to demand WJBK in exchange for KSTW/WUPA, that deal would be DOA. Fox is not going to give up an O&O in an NFC market, plus CBS would have a triopoly in Detroit (mitigated if CBS offered WKBD back to Fox, but still, that would be a lopsided trade in CBS's favor).

 

Depending on how much Tribune wants to ramp up production at their own TV studio division, having WPWR as a home for overflow in-house programming that WGN-TV can't air due to news would be a shrewd move on their part. And it could clear all of the sports play-by-play WGN originates that has to run on WCIU. So a station with minimal value under Fox would actually have value under Tribune.

 

One thing I'm curious about: does WGN America have cable coverage in Chicago proper, or is it still excluded due to its obsolescent status as the "Superstation" feed of WGN-TV? If not, WGN America's original shows could ultimately air on WPWR as well... just a thought.

[24994J 5269]

 

One thing I'm curious about: does WGN America have cable coverage in Chicago proper, or is it still excluded due to its obsolescent status as the "Superstation" feed of WGN-TV? If not, WGN America's original shows could ultimately air on WPWR as well... just a thought.

 

I didn't even think about that, but you make a very good point. WGN America is only available on satellite in Chicago, as far as I know.

[tyrannical bastard 3444]

This seems like extortion. Fox is trying to strip away their affiliation so they can turn around and BUY the station by forcing Tribune to give up KCPQ and take WPWR as a "trade".

 

 

Seems a lot like the NBC/Westinghouse swap back in the 1960s that "moved" KYW to Philadelphia and was later reversed because of NBC's actions to strip away the NBC affiliation caught wind of the DOJ who ordered the reversal.

 

Sooner or later, the greed is going to catch up with the NFL and the networks. Its getting WAY out of hand and consumers are beginning to revolt, especially in light of recent events and actions.

[Rusty Muck 4164]

This seems like extortion. Fox is trying to strip away their affiliation so they can turn around and BUY the station by forcing Tribune to give up KCPQ and take WPWR as a "trade".

 

 

Seems a lot like the NBC/Westinghouse swap back in the 1960s that "moved" KYW to Philadelphia and was later reversed because of NBC's actions to strip away the NBC affiliation caught wind of the DOJ who ordered the reversal.

 

Sooner or later, the greed is going to catch up with the NFL and the networks. Its getting WAY out of hand and consumers are beginning to revolt, especially in light of recent events and actions.

NBC also threatened to yank the NBC affiliation from WPTZ and WBZ-TV if Group W didn't agree to the trade. Tribune has only disclosed the termination agreement with KCPQ... nothing else about any other affiliation termination threats AFAIK.

 

Thing is, if Fox is making threats along the lines of what NBC made to Group W, we'd know about it already because Tribune is obligated to release it. Cox may have been authentically subjected to outright extortion because Fox knew they'd be able to get away with it.

 

To me, it looks like Fox and CBS are trying to maximize value in a sport that is at it's peak and is close to jumping the shark... if it hasn't already. Both networks know they will never get sweetheart deals like this ever again, so get what they can while the getting's good.

[GoldenShine9 1509]

I previously posted in another thread - the home market CBS stations for AFC teams. Other than the 7 O&O's they all have different owners after the Indianapolis change - not an easy move for CBS to try to acquire them:

 

AFC East

 

Buffalo - WIVB (LIN --> Media General)

Miami - WFOR (O&O)

New England - WBZ (O&O)

New York - WCBS (O&O)

 

AFC North

 

Baltimore - WJZ (O&O)

Cincinnati - WKRC (Sinclair)

Cleveland - WOIO (Raycom)

Pittsburgh - KDKA (O&O)

 

AFC South

 

Houston - KHOU (Gannett)

Indianapolis - WISH (LIN --> Media General) --> WTTV (Tribune)

Jacksonville - WJAX (Cox)

Tennessee - WTVF (Journal --> Scripps)

 

AFC West

 

Denver - KCNC (O&O)

Kansas City - KCTV (Meredith)

Oakland - KPIX (O&O)

San Diego - KFMB (local owner)

[mre29 1340]

What if the Fox-Cox1 deal was amended to include Tribune?

 

Fox gets KTVU from Cox and KCPQ from Tribune

Cox get WHBQ, KRIV, and KTXH from Fox

Tribune gets WFXT, WOFL, WRBW, and WOFX from Fox

 

 

 

1. Okay, that sounds dirty...

[mvcg66b3r 97]

Even better: What if the FOX-Cox deal was amended to include Tribune and Raycom?

 

FOX gets KTVU from Cox, KCPQ from Tribune and WVUE from Raycom

Cox gets WHBQ, KRIV and KTXH from FOX

Tribune gets WFXT, WOFL and WRBW from FOX

Raycom gets WOGX from FOX

[Big Country News 435]

 

Even better: What if the FOX-Cox deal was amended to include Tribune and Raycom?

 

FOX gets KTVU from Cox, KCPQ from Tribune and WVUE from Raycom

Cox gets WHBQ, KRIV and KTXH from FOX

Tribune gets WFXT, WOFL and WRBW from FOX

Raycom gets WOGX from FOX

 

Raycom doesn't own WVUE, and I don't know why y'all are bringing Cox into this. That deal is set in stone, waiting for the FCC's approval.

[mvcg66b3r 97]

Raycom doesn't own WVUE, and I don't know why y'all are bringing Cox into this. That deal is set in stone, waiting for the FCC's approval.

But they run it, and we all know "if you run it, you own it."

[Big Country News 435]

 

But they run it, and we all know "if you run it, you own it."

 

[mvcg66b3r 97]

LOL

[nickp 295]

Tribune has hired Greg Easterly from WJW in Cleveland to run WGN-TV and he is turning WGN into the same kind of news station that he did with WJW. WPWR will become home to programming that won't fit on WGN with the news expansion and a test and launch pad for Tribune Studios

[Thundershock MN 169]

Grand Rapids IS the Lions' top secondary market and still a top-50 market, so an argument could be that it would fit like KTBC and WOFL/WOGX (although those are growing markets) if Tribune has to give something up. While Austin and Orlando are not NFL markets, they are important secondary markets for Fox.

Is Greensboro a secondary market for the Panthers? Because the same case could then be made for Fox retaking WGHPiedmont...

Since it is being brought up. A portion of the DMA must be located within 75 miles of the stadium in order for it to be designated a secondary market. Also, not all markets within 75 miles of the stadium are designated secondary markets. Since these markets have been brought up:

 

Greensboro is a secondary market for the Panthers

Orlando is a secondary market for the Jaguars and Buccaneers

Grand Rapids is not a secondary market

Austin is not a secondary market

 

That said there is nothing stopping the latter two markets from picking up games of regional/local interest. They just aren't bound by the NFL secondary market rules.

 

A few comments:

• Does not seem like an even trade to me. Seems like Fox is getting a crown jewel in KCPQ while Tribune is getting a piece of crap in WPWR! It seems to have no value for them, especially as a MNTV affiliate!
  
• The little value that WPWR would seem to have would favor Fox keeping it! It is a duopoly station in DMA 3, which is also an NFC city! Is it possible that Fox is looking to unload all MNTV stations?
  

For all intents and purposes Tribune would be trading a now independent KCPQ in Seattle for a MNT affiliated WPWR in Chicago. What is the value of KCPQ minus the Fox affiliation? Because, that's what Tribune would likely be left with if they choose not to give into Fox.

 

In some ways I think Fox might be begrudgingly sacrificing WPWR. Tribune is extremely limited in what they can do with the "UHF Discount" NPRM hanging out there. In other words they can't really take on any more markets. So, WPWR is really the only thing of "value" Fox can offer up in exchange in order to get KCPQ.

 

 

I'm honestly not convinced that WPWR is the total clunker we're making it out to be. If Tribune is moving the secondary sports telecasts (so far Bull, and likely the White Sox) from WCIU to WPWR, having My50 under the umbrella would certainly bring in some ad revenue. It might also give the company some sort of leverage (don't know how, exactly) in the negotiations with the Cubs. The fact that nothing has been decided in that deal tells me that something is up, and WGN and friends aren't necessarily going down and out without a fight.

 

...Oh, and WPWR frequently outdraws its current sibling in the ratings.

I still personally think this whole thing is somehow intertwined with the Cubs deal. The Bulls (and likely White Sox) "OTA overflow" moving to WPWR seems well...odd...and somewhat telling. Especially, when one company (Fox) is trying to "steal" a station from the other (Tribune.) By no means am I saying this means WPWR is for sure going to Tribune. But, why would Tribune choose to work with Fox? If Tribune rebuffs Fox in Seattle that means WPWR stays in the Fox fold. So, what is missing...something is up. I have some theories but, those are for another thread.

 

 

This seems like extortion. Fox is trying to strip away their affiliation so they can turn around and BUY the station by forcing Tribune to give up KCPQ and take WPWR as a "trade".

 

 

Seems a lot like the NBC/Westinghouse swap back in the 1960s that "moved" KYW to Philadelphia and was later reversed because of NBC's actions to strip away the NBC affiliation caught wind of the DOJ who ordered the reversal.

 

Sooner or later, the greed is going to catch up with the NFL and the networks. Its getting WAY out of hand and consumers are beginning to revolt, especially in light of recent events and actions.

I brought this up in the Cox/Fox thread as well. But, It's a little different situation. Fox's affiliation agreements allow them to terminate the agreement and move the affiliation if they acquire a station in the market. And, Fox loves to use that as leverage to get what they want. That's pretty much been their MO with most of their swaps/acquisitions post Chris-Craft/UTV. 4 of the last 5 followed this pattern. They hung it over Clear Channel, Meredith, Capitol and now it appears...Cox. Three of them came out OK on their deals...Capitol got fleeced in my mind though. In every case Fox got what they wanted. But, all it takes is the threat or action of Fox acquiring a station in the same market. But, if you add a "...or, we are going to take the affiliation to our own station in the market" it differs from what NBC pulled.

 

 

What if the Fox-Cox1 deal was amended to include Tribune?

 

Fox gets KTVU from Cox and KCPQ from Tribune

Cox get WHBQ, KRIV, and KTXH from Fox

Tribune gets WFXT, WOFL, WRBW, and WOFX from Fox

 

 

 

1. Okay, that sounds dirty...

That would greatly increase Tribune's ownership cap percentage. Technically the "UHF discount" still exists so they could do this. But, if the FCC issues a R&O with no changes from the NPRM issued last year Tribune would be screwed. Because of that Tribune is really limited in what they can do...see my reply to TVNewsLover above.

 

Is this 2014 or 1994?

Do I sense the making another "TVNT series" like "New World at 20"?

 

 

With all that said I really expect some "decision" to be made in short order. I'm guessing Fox sent there final shakedown letter towards the end of the business day on Friday as 120 days from then is...January 17, 2015. And, the days are quickly ticking off the calendar. So, something is going to have to happen soon. It's not likely but, I personally hope Tribune calls Fox's bluff and tells them "to go pound sand" just for the chaos that would ensue. Plus, I really want to know what Fox's "plan B" is. If I were to wager a bet at this point I'd guess KIRO. Let's not forget that there was that Variety report out of left field stating Fox was sniffing around KIRO a little over a year ago.

[Rusty Muck 4164]

With all that said I really expect some "decision" to be made in short order. I'm guessing Fox sent there final shakedown letter towards the end of the business day on Friday as 120 days from then is...January 17, 2015. And, the days are quickly ticking off the calendar. So, something is going to have to happen soon. It's not likely but, I personally hope Tribune calls Fox's bluff and tells them "to go pound sand" just for the chaos that would ensue. Plus, I really want to know what Fox's "plan B" is. If I were to wager a bet at this point I'd guess KIRO. Let's not forget that there was that Variety report out of left field stating Fox was sniffing around KIRO a little over a year ago.

Tribune does have a wild card here that I don't think most are considering.

 

Say Tribune tells Fox to "pound sand" with KCPQ, and Fox trades with Cox (again) for KIRO. Where does that leave CBS? Contrary to what most might think, it just unfathomable for me to consider KSTW flipping back to CBS, especially given how badly CBS fared over there in the 1990s. The investment that would be needed to make KSTW on par with KIRO, KING-KONG, KOMO and KCPQ wouldn't be worth it. And Tribune has shown that they can make a big deal with CBS with WTTV.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Tribune has been in talks CBS to affiliate with KCPQ, and immediately announces such a pact right as they break off talks with Fox. Q13 would lose the Seahawks games, but they would still HAVE NFL games and the #1 overall network.

 

How's THAT for chaos?

[Samantha 2878]

 

Tribune does have a wild card here that I don't think most are considering.

 

Say Tribune tells Fox to "pound sand" with KCPQ, and Fox trades with Cox (again) for KIRO. Where does that leave CBS? Contrary to what most might think, it just unfathomable for me to consider KSTW flipping back to CBS, especially given how badly CBS fared over there in the 1990s. The investment that would be needed to make KSTW on par with KIRO, KING-KONG, KOMO and KCPQ wouldn't be worth it. And Tribune has shown that they can make a big deal with CBS with WTTV.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Tribune has been in talks CBS to affiliate with KCPQ. Talk about forcing Fox's hand.

 

I actually think that's more likely than CBS affiliating with its O&O KSTW should CBS move. KCPQ at least has a news infrastructure. I even said it on the last page: "If Fox were to buy KIRO from Cox, I suspect that KCPQ would be first in line for an affiliation [with CBS]."

 

What's interesting is that the potential actors (Cox with Fox and Tribune with CBS) have dealt with these networks very recently.

[Rusty Muck 4164]

I actually think that's more likely than CBS affiliating with its O&O KSTW should CBS move. KCPQ at least has a news infrastructure. I even said it on the last page: "If Fox were to buy KIRO from Cox' date=' I suspect that KCPQ would be first in line for an affiliation [with CBS']."

 

What's interesting is that the potential actors (Cox with Fox and Tribune with CBS) have dealt with these networks very recently.

Not only that, but any newscasts that KCPQ would have to drop - as a result of affiliating with CBS - could be moved over to KXJO.