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The Pro Wrestling/Sports Entertainment Thread


Jess

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Bitch all you want about pro wrestling being a sport, it's at least "sports entertainment", so it should go here.

 

I have an on-again, off-again relationship with wrestling. Right now it's on-again, but that's mostly because CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are awesome. Though I'm dismayed that we're getting an Orton-Cena feud YET. AGAIN. Nevertheless, I get to go to the Smackdown taping on January 7th with my brother and nephew. It's the first time I've been to a WWE TV taping or a WWE event period.

 

I'll watch the current WWE product, but I'm really an old-school kind of guy. 80s to 90s WWF. NWA/Jim Crockett Promotions. Mid-South Wrestling. The REAL ECW. Ric Flair in his prime. The four horsemen. The Road Warriors. (As you can see, I was far more of an NWA guy.)

 

---

 

Actually I managed to procure something rather interesting. Tapes of the old Georgia Championship Wrestling have been circulating online. One of them was captured from, of all places, what is now WTXF Fox 29. GCW was the show they aired on WTBS during the early days of cable, but for some reason it looks like 29 was able to get the rights to show it here. With caveats of course.

 

This was 1981 or so, the last days of the territory era, and thus they had to put promotion for the local territory in there. So, twice during the show, we abruptly cut away from Gordon Solie to... yep...

 

Vince.

 

This was when Vince Sr. was the owner, and Mr. McMahon was simply an announcer. But it was so weird to go from the athletic style of GCW to the Big Men of the WWF, including Andre The Giant. Had my mind blown, for sure.

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Yes Yes Yes.

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Daniel Bryan and CM Punk have breathed new life into WWE as some of the storylines and matches have been phenomenal. Some of the wrestlers (especially the newbies) have become exciting again, the matches are close to edge-of-your-seat thrilling and the crowds (and their chants) are actually great to hear. I actually can't wait to see where the 'E takes us in 2014!

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Yeah, I've stopped right after the Attitude Era went into extinction many years ago, but I've gotten into the sport of pro wrestling once again mainly because of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan. There was a brief time where I watched TNA, but that was mainly because of the ECW Originals (aka EV 2.0) as I used to be a huge ECW fan, even when I was still in my teenage years.

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Guest Former Member 207

I've been watching pro wrestling on and off since the age of five, going back to when then-WWF started syndicating their programming to a national audience. In the ensuing years, I've been exposed to other wrestling organizations besides WWE, the old AWA, WCW, the original ECW, and TNA.

 

Also in discovering podcasts over the few years, I've found some wrestling podcasts...a couple good ones, and a few boring and self-important ones. It's also a good way to catch up on what I've missed in the past week.

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They're still trying the WWE network? As a subscription network? Man, Vince must be delusional... scratch that, he must be more delusional than he usually is. Sports package, maybe, but I don't know if the demand is there for a WWE premium channel.

 

***

 

Meanwhile, tomorrow night's Raw is gonna be an "Old School" Raw. I love these. Mostly because they do take the time to make it look and feel as authentic as they can. They mix and match from different periods (last year's had the RAW is WAR titantron and the Raw letters I believe), but the on-air graphics look genuinely late 80s/early 90s, and that's hard to do. Of course, they can't use the WWF logo, but rather the "retrofitted" version of the WW logo.

 

At least the network led to the reversal of one of the stupidest things ever. WWF had to become WWE in 2002 because of confusion with the World Wildlife Fund, which had the initials first. McMahon and the Panda People worked out an arrangement that the WWF initials were to be limited as far as wrestling went, which McMahon then promptly violated. So, a court injunction ruled that World Wrestling could not use the initials WWF in any circumstance, and their current "scratch" logo was prohibited to be used. "World Wrestling Federation" and the older WWF logos were still okay, and could even still be used!

 

So for about a decade, any mention of "WWF" in commentary had to be muted, and anything that said WWF in text had to be blurred. Oh, and attitude-era shows became literally unwatchable because they put the scratch logo on EVERYTHING, including cameraman's shirts.

 

They finally reached a deal last year in which they don't have to blur out the scratch logo or mute "WWF", but in exchange can't use "WWF" in any other context and any new material. Which is way less stupid.

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They're still trying the WWE network? As a subscription network? Man, Vince must be delusional... scratch that, he must be more delusional than he usually is. Sports package, maybe, but I don't know if the demand is there for a WWE premium channel.

 

***

 

Meanwhile, tomorrow night's Raw is gonna be an "Old School" Raw. I love these. Mostly because they do take the time to make it look and feel as authentic as they can. They mix and match from different periods (last year's had the RAW is WAR titantron and the Raw letters I believe), but the on-air graphics look genuinely late 80s/early 90s, and that's hard to do. Of course, they can't use the WWF logo, but rather the "retrofitted" version of the WW logo.

 

At least the network led to the reversal of one of the stupidest things ever. WWF had to become WWE in 2002 because of confusion with the World Wildlife Fund, which had the initials first. McMahon and the Panda People worked out an arrangement that the WWF initials were to be limited as far as wrestling went, which McMahon then promptly violated. So, a court injunction ruled that World Wrestling could not use the initials WWF in any circumstance, and their current "scratch" logo was prohibited to be used. "World Wrestling Federation" and the older WWF logos were still okay, and could even still be used!

 

So for about a decade, any mention of "WWF" in commentary had to be muted, and anything that said WWF in text had to be blurred. Oh, and attitude-era shows became literally unwatchable because they put the scratch logo on EVERYTHING, including cameraman's shirts.

 

They finally reached a deal last year in which they don't have to blur out the scratch logo or mute "WWF", but in exchange can't use "WWF" in any other context and any new material. Which is way less stupid.

 

Looking back, it was sort of a dick move on the courts' part to have the WWE censor out any and all mention of their old initials (even for historical purposes). Thank goodness the two sides were able to come to some kind of terms rather than none at all post-injunction. You don't just erase history like that.

 

Speaking of the WWE Network, I'm surprised the McMahons are still trying to make that a reality. There were even some rumors months ago that NBCU was willing to let them have G4 (which was supposed be replaced by the Esquire Network before it ended up replacing Style instead) since the two companies have some kind of good relationship with each other. Haven't heard anything else on that end.

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Well when I switched from DirecTV to Comcast in 2011, I subscribed to WWE's Classics On-Demand service, and despite the fact that a few things were edited out (including copyrighted music that some of the wrestlers used, and Michael Buffer's voice, mainly due to his trademarked catchphrase, "Let's Get Ready to Rumble") I always enjoyed watching the old-school material, such as the 80's to 90's WWF stuff, Hulkamania, and all the rest. It was like going back in time.

 

Sadly, They're shutting it down on January 31st, which I think sucks because that was the only way I could watch most of the classic material. Big Mistake, Vince. BIG Mistake!!!

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Looking back, it was sort of a dick move on the courts' part to have the WWE censor out any and all mention of their old initials (even for historical purposes). Thank goodness the two sides were able to come to some kind of terms rather than none at all post-injunction. You don't just erase history like that.

Frankly it was Vince's own damn fault. They HAD an agreement in 1993 or so, in which McMahon would limit the use of "WWF" in certain territories. And it apparently prevented them from creating a new WWF logo. Fast forward to 1999, and not only do we have a new logo, but "WWF" is used with such reckless abandon that "WWF Entertainment" becomes the name of the now-public company. Basically they openly flouted the earlier agreement, which pissed off the Panda People, which led to the court decision in 2002.

 

The terms of the court decision were absolutely ridiculous, though. It's one thing to prevent the company from using the name going forward. It's another to make it retroactive, so that everything released prior to 2002 has to be edited to remove scratch logos and WWF refrences. Adding to the ridiculousness, the old Recognized Symbol of Excellence could be used unaltered in any context - of course they took advantage of that.

 

 

Ironically, it was the network that fueled the settlement with the Panda People. A WWE network is going to have a lot of archival footage, and it would be the most epic pain in the ass to alter all of it. The altered arrangement means that WWE no longer needs to censor its old footage, but can't use any "WWF" logo - including the Recognized Symbol of Excellence - in new productions. So, for example, they'll promote WrestleMania X as WWE Wrestlemania X, and the DVD would have the altered "WW" RSoE on the cover and menus, but the actual program will use "WWF".

 

Speaking of the WWE Network, I'm surprised the McMahons are still trying to make that a reality. There were even some rumors months ago that NBCU was willing to let them have G4 (which was supposed be replaced by the Esquire Network before it ended up replacing Style instead) since the two companies have some kind of good relationship with each other. Haven't heard anything else on that end.

There's a press conference on the 8th that will supposedly announce the network and introduce a long-overdue new WWE logo. What it's looking like is that it will be a streaming service, that every Raw and Smackdown will be available on it, and at least at first, pay-per-views will be free through it. That would also explain why WWE Classics is ending on the 31st. I definitely applaud them on this idea.

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Guest Former Member 207

In regards to Raw and Smackdown, on a recent podcast I listened to recently, WWE's contract with NBCUniversal expires sometime mid-year, and NBCU has first right of refusal in terms of negotiations. Except for the five-year stint on Spike, WWE and USA have about a near-30 year relationship...I doubt Vince would want to go through that again, and take Raw and Smackdown exclusively online (at least until there's a big enough audience).

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There's a good write-up in Variety about WWE's impending contract negotiations. They currently get $135 million in rights fees, but they want to go way higher than that. Especially since broadcasters are looking for DVR-proof live programming and WWE is it. So they've staggered their contracts so that everything comes up at the same time. That means Raw, Smackdown, but also Superstars, NXT, Main Event, Total Divas, and whatever else. Ideally, they want one overarching deal with a media company, though they'll offer the shows piecemeal if they have to. To sweeten the deal, WWE is looking to make Smackdown live every week.

 

NBCU has a first right of refusal, yes. They have an exclusive negotiating window until February 15th. Then, it's open season, with bids up until the 28th and the winner announced on March 4th. Everyone you think of is interested, including Fox, Viacom, A&E, Disney, etc.

 

Despite this, nobody believes that NBCUniversal wants to give up WWE. Monday Night Raw is the #1 show on USA, the number one cable network in America. If they lost WWE, they'd sink to #4. No matter what anyone tells you, USA, not NBC, is the company's most valuable and lucrative asset. They're willing to pay. And WWE has been succeeding in getting Madison Avenue to know that people who still have teeth watch wrestling. That's why you now, unfortunately, have three-hour Raws. (Have we learnt nothing from WCW?!)

 

***

 

Oh, tonight is Old School RAW. God, I love these. They purposely use a set with elements from 80s and 90s WWF programming, they bring back old stars, like Ric Flair (Wooo!), and they even manage to make the graphics look like they came from an old chyron machine. Considering they have to use the modified Recognized Symbol of Excellence (the one without the F), I think they do a great job replicating the look. Making authentic-looking 80s graphics in modern software is very hard to do.

 

Actually, that's one area of the company that continually gets overlooked: their production. Since the mid-1980s, WWE programming has consistently looked extremely sharp, well filmed, and well directed - even on the C and D shows. Even when WCW was number one, they never looked it. There was something about the look of the WWF, even then, that outclassed WCW. Mind you, this was even before RAW was WAR and the Titantron was introduced, and when Vince was still announcing.

 

Plus, the editing team. I mean, they have to edit half the library to shreds, but they at least do a good job doing so. For example, Hulk Hogan's anthology DVD has a few good examples. There's a long sequence where Hogan walks out of the locker room to his theme music - originally this was "Eye of the Tiger", but they did a good job of dubbing in "Real American". When Hogan gets the WW(E) championship, they actually manage to make the chyron look like it actually originally read WWE, and somehow dubbed in an "E" when Hogan said "WWF". And, of course, they had Bash at the Beach 96 and his heel turn to start the nWo. The heel turn had to be sudden and shocking, so Bischoff didn't tell his announcers what was going to happen. Which, of course, meant that Bobby Heenan started screaming "WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?!" as Hogan walked out. That whole thing is not there on the DVD or any WWE replays of the heel turn, which is kind of amazing. And kind of pointless.

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As expected, Vince McMahon announced the WWE Network tonight. I know I am going to sound like either a puff piece or Tony Schiavone on Nitro circa 1998, but this is a momentous moment in the history of television.

 

WWE Network will be a 24 hour a day, 7 days a week channel. But it won't be on a cable box. No, it'll be on your PS3 or PS4, your iOS device, your Android device, your computer, anything that can access video from the Internet will carry it. It will be $10 a month with a six month commitment.

 

This price gets you every WWE pay per view. Yes, that includes Wrestlemania 30. But it also includes Wrestlemanias 1-29 as well. As you'd expect, the network will include a heavy streaming component which will draw on WWE's huge tape library that includes WCW and ECW. And yes, not only will all past WWE pay per views be on the service, but all past WCW and ECW PPVs as well.

 

The implications of this are staggering. This is premium, original content being aimed directly at cord cutters. Getting to watch Wrestlemania - legally - without cable or satellite, and for a reasonable price? That's huge. And it's a huge risk, because Vince had to have pissed off every cable company in the universe. Not that Vince cares, of course.

 

This is really, really forward thinking. It's literally going where the future is - online streaming. And it's the very definition of SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY.

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Guest Former Member 207

I know Vince gets a lot of flack from the internet wrestling community (and outside of it), but he's always been an visionary especially when it comes to WWE. He's ventured outside with the World Bodybuilding Federation (remember that?), the XFL, the themed restaurants, a record label, and a film division. Almost of all that have been, unfortunately, colossal failures--although WWE Films is at best a so-so success...but usually when Vince focuses on his core business (wrestling) and not trying so hard to be an entertainment mogul, he's a massive success. I'm with you Hulkie in that I do believe that WWE Network will be successful--the massive tape library alone, in my opinion, will be worth the price of subscription, and of course having the pay-per-views included as well is worth it. In reading the press release from WWE.com, they're collaborating with MLB's Advanced Media division to help them get the stream up and running; it wouldn't surprise me to see more WWE-MLB collaborations but on a more official way.

 

Aside from that, the current model of streaming media today kinda reminds a bit of the old subscription TV model of the early-to-mid 80s, before cable television into what it is today. The exception, of course, is there are more options available to a wider audience. I'm currently a DirecTV subscriber who's stuck a contract at least until the end of this year, and I've seriously considered doing the cord-cutting and get a streaming box--possibly sign up with Time Warner Cable for a basic cable package (only because they have no contracts and their TWCTV.com app offers live streaming of nearly of all available channels), have Netflix (which I currently have), Hulu, WWE, and some free video content sites (like Crackle and a few others). All that would probably shave at least $35 a month off of my current bill, give or take a few.

 

All that said...I'm rooting for WWE Network's success. I just might sign up soon.

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I've started a new thread on the WWE Network, because I think its launch is one of the most important things to happen to TV in a long time. I sincerely do. It's the first time a major content provider said "screw you" to cable and went directly to the consumer.

 

One thing I did want to note here is that Vince gets very little credit for the presentation of his product. Tuesday was my first WWE event. I'd seen a lousy WCW house show and one of the worst WCW Thunders ever - and WCW Thunder was not a very good show to begin with. None of them had the sheer production values that I saw on Tuesday. They had video vignettes on the arena screens, they had ring crews getting everything set up in extremely quick fashion, lights, pyro, everything. And it's been consistent through the years. Sure, there were times when I preferred the other guys, but WCW Nitro never, ever looked as polished or well-directed as a WWE show. I don't think it's any coincidence that Vince learned a lot of the TV production trade from Dick Ebersol.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is a great blog entry by Tony Schiavone on last night's rant by Richard Sherman and how much professional wrestling has influenced sports.

 

But watching Erin hold the mic for Sherman reminded me of the days I held the mic for the likes of Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Macho Man Randy Savage and the Road Warriors. I thought she did a good job of holding it together while Sherman was ranting. It’s something I used to do.

And then it hit me, there’s a lot about professional sports, both on an individual, and production level, that came directly from the sports-entertainment genre that many people love, and many love to hate: professional wrestling.

Trash-talking? That came from the likes of Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, Kevin Nash and Scott Hall (and even way before them from the Anderson Brothers). Screaming into a microphone? Road Warrior Hawk (he was the best); Hulk Hogan, Scott Steiner and DDP.

But there is more! NBA dance teams, where do you think that came from? The Nitro Girls, of course. Entrances with smoke and fireworks? From Monday Nitro, Raw and the countless pay per views. Walk up music for baseball players before they step in the batter’s box? You guessed it, pro wrestling entrances. And they all sneered at Vince McMahon when he tried the XFL, but he was way ahead of his time.

While I think NBA dance teams predated the Nitro Girls, everything else is true. Even the XFL - it's widely regarded as a failure, but many of its production techniques made their way to the NFL.

 

BTW, I always liked Schiavone, even when a lot of people didn't. When he was on, he was great at calling matches and adding excitement to them. Even if there were too many Greatest Nights In The History Of Our Sports.

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  • 3 months later...

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